Father beats man to death after catching him trying to molesting his daughter

[wfs29223]

Or any child for that matter.

[ashtxsniper]

This happened in the next county over from where I work. The concensus around here is that he will walk free and clear. Most of the local LE, myself included, hope he walks away from this without any legal reprocussions.

[clayton c]

Sounds like a good way to set somebody up especially if there will be no questions asked and have the complete approval of the justice system. Perfect crime.

[eyeeatingfish]

Sounds like a good way to set somebody up especially if there will be no questions asked and have the complete approval of the justice system. Perfect crime.

Very good point. Invite a man that you dislike over to your house, beat him to death, and say he was trying to molest your kid.

A 4 year old might be able to articulate a series of events to coroborate the fathers claim that she was beign molested though. Any younger than that and there is pretty much nothing to prove or disprove the fathers statement.

This brings up the very important issue that I wanted to address but didn't quite hit squarely. That issue being that it seems that people are much more apt to turn a blind eye to any other facts at the mere mention of child molestation. As one poster mentioned he thought the father shouldn't even be interviewed by the police. Why does the charge of child molestation seem to be such a trump card? It seems that in the public eye if someone alleges child molestation then the suspect is already guilty, no need for a fair trial, guilty until proven innocent.

It does beg the question how effective it would be in unusul claims such as a claim that you walked in and found a female molesting your kid so you beat her to death. Or you, as a man, were bring raped by a female so you killed her.

[Codger_64]

Very good point. Invite a man that you dislike over to your house, beat him to death, and say he was trying to molest your kid.

A 4 year old might be able to articulate a series of events to coroborate the fathers claim that she was beign molested though. Any younger than that and there is pretty much nothing to prove or disprove the fathers statement.

This brings up the very important issue that I wanted to address but didn't quite hit squarely. That issue being that it seems that people are much more apt to turn a blind eye to any other facts at the mere mention of child molestation. As one poster mentioned he thought the father shouldn't even be interviewed by the police. Why does the charge of child molestation seem to be such a trump card? It seems that in the public eye if someone alleges child molestation then the suspect is already guilty, no need for a fair trial, guilty until proven innocent.

It does beg the question how effective it would be in unusul claims such as a claim that you walked in and found a female molesting your kid so you beat her to death. Or you, as a man, were bring raped by a female so you killed her.

I agree wholeheartedly with your take on this case. We have only the killer's word as to the circumstances, and via the media. There is a distinct lack of facts. In essence, the parallels to the Zimmerman case are there for those not inclined to jump immediately on the "justified homicide bandwagon" based solely on a killer's word. He may well have been justified in his comission of the homicide. Or he may not have been.

[timcsaw]

I agree wholeheartedly with your take on this case. We have only the killer's word as to the circumstances, and via the media. There is a distinct lack of facts. In essence, the parallels to the Zimmerman case are there for those not inclined to jump immediately on the "justified homicide bandwagon" based solely on a killer's word. He may well have been justified in his comission of the homicide. Or he may not have been.

Good point and I can't disagree... I would modify my position/comment to read; 'IF the father's account is true, then his reaction is understandable.'.

[Codger_64]

Good point and I can't disagree... I would modify my position/comment to read; 'IF the father's account is true, then his reaction is understandable.'.

Four-year-olds scream. Surprise, fear, pain, joy, anger, frustration or just because they can. I was nearly arrested when I lived in FLorida because a well-meaning neighbor called police to report me beating my four-year-old daughter in the front yard. What really happened was that her mother had left to go to work and she had to stay home. She took off out the front door intent on chasing her mom's car down the street. I caught her by the arm and held her loosely, letting her spin in circles inside my grip while she screamed out her frustration. She got over it and was playing again before the police and social worker arrived. I promise you as I did them, I did not beat my daughter. Nor was I trying to rape her.

[djjonny]

Codger, I agree, but bear in mind there's a huge difference in someone seeing your daughter scream in your arms and you seeing her scream in the arms of someone else who isn't a family member or close friend

The cops and social worker would have seen your daughter play with no fear of you and see you're a great dad. They are generally trained or experienced to pick things like this up

The case is currently being investigated as a homicide
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...edly-molested/

From the article
During the outing, according to McMinn’s news release, a witness saw Flores forcibly carry off the girl to a secluded area. The witness ran for help and told the girl’s father.

In this case the father had evidence of it being potential abuse against his daughter. Even if the sicko meant no harm, hypothetically, his actions did nothing to convince the girl's dad otherwise

[Dr Heelhook]

If you are a father, picture this situation in your mind, then ask yourself if the concept of "consequences" would even exist for you.

I would have killed him... the difference between me and this guy is that i would have felt no remorse whatsoever... Killing a child rapist is a public service in this state

Easy to be a tough guy on the Internet. Killing someone is something you never take lightly, nomatter if it's the right or wrong thing to do at the moment. I just hope daddy and daughter will get pastt this incident without any problems, traumatic or legal.

[Codger_64]

Codger, I agree, but bear in mind there's a huge difference in someone seeing your daughter scream in your arms and you seeing her scream in the arms of someone else who isn't a family member or close friend

The cops and social worker would have seen your daughter play with no fear of you and see you're a great dad. They are generally trained or experienced to pick things like this up

The case is currently being investigated as a homicide
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...edly-molested/

From the article
During the outing, according to McMinn’s news release, a witness saw Flores forcibly carry off the girl to a secluded area. The witness ran for help and told the girl’s father.

In this case the father had evidence of it being potential abuse against his daughter. Even if the sicko meant no harm, hypothetically, his actions did nothing to convince the girl's dad otherwise

Thanks for the news link. This is far, far more information than most people used to form their opinions initially.

During the outing, according to McMinn’s news release, a witness saw Flores forcibly carry off the girl to a secluded area. The witness ran for help and told the girl’s father.

The father heard his daughter screaming and ran toward her. He found Flores allegedly attacking the girl. He pulled Flores from her and hit him several times in the head and neck area.

Harmon said the physical evidence at the scene appeared to substantiate the father’s account of the incident. When medical personnel arrive, they found Flores with his pants and underwear pulled down.

Kick, fire, kick again. Add fuel to the fire.

[parbajtor]

Oh do shut up, you two. You sound like defence lawyers (and no, there's nothing noble about that - despite your tone).


On another note, this story gets a well-deserved F*CK YEAH.

Someone so easily influenced without the benefits of evidence WILL eventually find themselves on the wrong side of the dock. Perhaps you might then change your mind about the "nobility" of a defence lawyer.

On another note, thanks to djjonny's link we can all say F*CK YEAH

[eyeeatingfish]

Codger, I agree, but bear in mind there's a huge difference in someone seeing your daughter scream in your arms and you seeing her scream in the arms of someone else who isn't a family member or close friend
The cops and social worker would have seen your daughter play with no fear of you and see you're a great dad. They are generally trained or experienced to pick things like this up

The case is currently being investigated as a homicide
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...edly-molested/
From the article
During the outing, according to McMinn’s news release, a witness saw Flores forcibly carry off the girl to a secluded area. The witness ran for help and told the girl’s father.

In this case the father had evidence of it being potential abuse against his daughter. Even if the sicko meant no harm, hypothetically, his actions did nothing to convince the girl's dad otherwise

Thanks for the link, this definitely supports the fathers claim of events. Could the father have stopped the attack without lethal force? Maybe. Was he legally required to use less than legal force? There is a good chance he was not.

There are two types of response to this sort of thing. The emotional response and the legally justified response. An emotional response without a legally justified response can get people in a lot of trouble. The emotional response to what this father saw (or thought he saw) was extremely understandable. But what if the emotion of what he thought he saw clouded his ability to reason through what was going on? Emotion can often blind people to facts or reason and in the event someone that someone acts incorrectly based on an emotional reaction they still get in trouble. The emotional aspect may be a defense against the charge of murder but charges of manslaughter may fit or they may send them to the mental hospital for a long time.

I suspect that fathers response was both emotional (very emotional) and legally justified.

[eyeeatingfish]

Four-year-olds scream. Surprise, fear, pain, joy, anger, frustration or just because they can. I was nearly arrested when I lived in FLorida because a well-meaning neighbor called police to report me beating my four-year-old daughter in the front yard. What really happened was that her mother had left to go to work and she had to stay home. She took off out the front door intent on chasing her mom's car down the street. I caught her by the arm and held her loosely, letting her spin in circles inside my grip while she screamed out her frustration. She got over it and was playing again before the police and social worker arrived. I promise you as I did them, I did not beat my daughter. Nor was I trying to rape her.

The resident manager at my condo told me someone wanted to call CPS on me because of the way I was playing with my daughter at the pool. She was 2 or so at the time and I was tossing her into the pool and then jumping in to grab her. She liked it and I always grabbed her out or jumped in to hold her since she could not keep her head above. The resident manager saw the video and thought it perfectly fine. This other resident didn't and when my wife saw the video she was not too pleased... with me. Now I just toss my daughter from inside the pool and CPS hasn't come yet.


I went to one case a few years ago of possible abuse by the dad against 3 daughters as claimed by the mom. Regular beat officers don't do a full interview of child sex assault victims so they have to be very short and delicate in determining what happened when talking to them. The mom was claiming that the dad, her current husband, was sexually abusing the children. The mom appeared to be addicted to drugs of some sort (meth we suspected) and seemed to be trying to create the situation for some reason against the husband. No definitive answer yes or no could be attained from the daughters but one suspicious response was given, something to the effect of their privates hurting. It seemed like they may have been coached. The father was not arrested but all 3 girls were taken into CPS custody and the case was sent to detectives for further investigation, but I don't know what happened after that.

[CWL]

Just reported that Grand Jury met and chose not to prosecute.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/19...uled-homicide/

[HeavyHanded]

My 2 cents - LE should interview enough folks to be reasonably certain the "perp" and dad have no other personal issues that might have exploded into an unintentional homicide (owes money, drug transaction etc).

That satisfied, dad's actions sound like what a "reasonable man" would do in a similar situation. Depending on where in the house this all went down, I'd have grabbed a kitchen knife, sledge handle, belt knife, kettlebell etc and gone to town as well. I hope for his conscience sake (guy doesn't sound like a killer) he's damn sure of what he saw...

[timcsaw]

Seems that there were enough witnesses to the event that the Grand Jury made the right decision. Just my opinion.

[timcsaw]

Seems that there were enough witnesses to the event that the Grand Jury made the right decision. Just my opinion.

[eyeeatingfish]

I was thinking about this case and I thought up a plausible situation where the father in a similar situation would not be justified.
Lets say hypothetically that the daughter had a rash near her private parts and the mother knew about this. Lets say the mother asked a doctor friend who happened to be at the part to take a look at the rash. The mother steps out for a quick second to grab something and the doctor is alone examining the daughter and she is crying because of the pain of the rash.

The father walks in, doesn't know the man, sees his daughter crying, and sees the man touching near his daughters privates. The father subsequently beats the innocent man to death.


So now what? An innocent man is dead all because the father reacted to an emotional instinct when there was a reasonable explanation. Now does the father get charged with murder? Manslaughter? or does he get released with no charges? The information known to the father in a real molestation case and to the father in my hypothetical case is the same so would it be excusable or not? The innocent man's family could probably sue for a decent sum.

So maybe my hypothetical situation is not very likely but not impossible.

[timcsaw]

I was thinking about this case and I thought up a plausible situation where the father in a similar situation would not be justified.
Lets say hypothetically that the daughter had a rash near her private parts and the mother knew about this. Lets say the mother asked a doctor friend who happened to be at the part to take a look at the rash. The mother steps out for a quick second to grab something and the doctor is alone examining the daughter and she is crying because of the pain of the rash.

The father walks in, doesn't know the man, sees his daughter crying, and sees the man touching near his daughters privates. The father subsequently beats the innocent man to death.


So now what? An innocent man is dead all because the father reacted to an emotional instinct when there was a reasonable explanation. Now does the father get charged with murder? Manslaughter? or does he get released with no charges? The information known to the father in a real molestation case and to the father in my hypothetical case is the same so would it be excusable or not? The innocent man's family could probably sue for a decent sum.

So maybe my hypothetical situation is not very likely but not impossible.

Are the doctor's pants around his ankles?

[eyeeatingfish]

Are the doctor's pants around his ankles?

So you would only respond violently if the man standing over your naked daughter didn't have any pants on? I don't recall any mention of pants being down on the dead guy.

My whole point is to show a possible scenario in which lethal force would not have been justified to illustrate the need for a reasoned response rather than a sudden emotional one.