$250 for a taiwan knife?

[bh49]

There are some point I agree with OP, some completely disagree. IMHO if somebody cares about "Pride of ownership", made in Taiwan doesn't fit there at least today in US. This is most people perception. Please, do not tell me about ignorance. Ignorance is relative term and all of us are ignorant in one or another areas. Of cause we do not feel this way. Also this is common perception that anything made in Taiwan should be less expensive than made in US. And this is correct in most of the cases, but most likely not applicable in this case. Big publicly owned companies and small family businesses are runs quite differently. For large corporation bottom line is profit. Business owner can make his decision based on some other factors, especially if he is knifenut like most of us (I hope not offense is taken).

I wonder if the OP, and the others who agree, would be happy if the knife was made in the US and cost $300 street price.

Yes. I mentioned before on several occasions that I am ready to pay more for US made goods, especially knives.

He also keeps bringing up Kershaw and the 0560 so I wonder if he rather the knife be made in the US and all profits from it's sale go to Japan, or the knife made in Taiwan and all profits coming to the US (to a company that likes to donate money to multiple good causes in it's community).

I am not OP, but speaking in general, I do not have a problem to see profit go to foreign company, which invested money to create manufacturing jobs in US and supports American working people.

[anthony cheeseboro]

Sal answered this about as plainly as possible: Taiwan is a high wage, first world economy; what they produce is not cheap. The problem is that some people act like it is still 1965, and think that all of East Asia is rice paddies and low wage workers.

[PURPLEDC]

There are some point I agree with OP, some completely disagree. IMHO if somebody cares about "Pride of ownership", made in Taiwan doesn't fit there at least today in US. This is most people perception. Please, do not tell me about ignorance. Ignorance is relative term and all of us are ignorant in one or another areas. Of cause we do not feel this way. Also this is common perception that anything made in Taiwan should be less expensive than made in US. And this is correct in most of the cases, but most likely not applicable in this case. Big publicly owned companies and small family businesses are runs quite differently. For large corporation bottom line is profit. Business owner can make his decision based on some other factors, especially if he is knifenut like most of us (I hope not offense is taken).


Yes. I mentioned before on several occasions that I am ready to pay more for US made goods, especially knives.

I am not OP, but speaking in general, I do not have a problem to see profit go to foreign company, which invested money to create manufacturing jobs in US and supports American working people.

thats a good point. Even though ive all ready backed down on my previous arguments I think this can still be a good discussion on the topic. While I stated all ready (multiple times) that it has nothing to do with the fact that its made in taiwan, if I had to make a choice based on the origin of the company I would actually choose the kershaw way. So yes profits go to a japanese corporation. But I dont really care about that. I dont care about the company owners profits. I care about the little guy in america working for those companies. So id rather see 200 employees (and their families) benefiting from having a job from a japanese corporation than a couple families benefitting from a USA corporation that is outsourcing. I do realize spyderco does manufacure in the usa and they contribute to US jobs as well but as it was stated KAI is a much bigger corporation and therefore have more US jobs to offer.

So I personally would rather see spyderco expand or outsource work to USA companies rather than taiwan. But even then If it meant that they had to outsource to a company like Bear MGC where quality would certainly take a dive I would choose Taiwan instead. And I also realize that in todays economy its very hard to expand a USA company. But I fear that our US economy will never make a turn for the better if we continue to outsource. We lose jobs and without the US making goods for ourselves or for export that puts the power in the countries doing the manufacturing as they are now holding the cards. If we ever fell on really hard times or did something the rest of the world surely didnt agree with and trading embargo's became effective between us and asian countries we would be pretty screwed.

[PURPLEDC]

Sal answered this about as plainly as possible: Taiwan is a high wage, first world economy; what they produce is not cheap. The problem is that some people act like it is still 1965, and think that all of East Asia is rice paddies and low wage workers.

Yes but Sal Also stated that the key to increasing profit margins is the exchange rate of US dollars to the Taiwan Dollar. So there is profit to be had in manufacturing there. Lets say a factory worker in the USA gets paid $15 and hour and the factory worker in Taiwan gets $15 taiwan dollars an hour. They get paid the same and its possible that they can buy the same things there with that same amount of money but if they took their $15 and came to america they would only have 50 cents. The US dollar is worth 30 times what a taiwan dollar is worth.

But its also been said that Spyderco has to pay shipping, duties and import export work which I know nothing about. Its weird though that governments charge duties on raw materials but it wouldnt surprise me all things considering. But still I think we can all agree spyderco wouldnt have done this if they were losing money. Just how much they are not loosing is the question.

[rycen]

Buying a Spyderco regardless of country which it is made is supporting a US company.

[Ankerson]

Yes but Sal Also stated that the key to increasing profit margins is the exchange rate of US dollars to the Taiwan Dollar. So there is profit to be had in manufacturing there. Lets say a factory worker in the USA gets paid $15 and hour and the factory worker in Taiwan gets $15 taiwan dollars an hour. They get paid the same and its possible that they can buy the same things there with that same amount of money but if they took their $15 and came to america they would only have 50 cents. The US dollar is worth 30 times what a taiwan dollar is worth.

But its also been said that Spyderco has to pay shipping, duties and import export work which I know nothing about. Its weird though that governments charge duties on raw materials but it wouldnt surprise me all things considering. But still I think we can all agree spyderco wouldnt have done this if they were losing money. Just how much they are not loosing is the question.

Sal also stated something about comparable wages so that $15 is $15 either in the Taiwan or the US or very close to it.

Even at the percentages that Sal stated it costs like $1.00 to $0.70 that's still $11.50 to $15.

Kinda like if 2 people had Jobs, one in Calf and the other in Virginia, both are making $15 an hour, not really the same due to the cost of living is so much higher in Calf and that difference in percentage would be a lot more than comparing Taiwan to the US.

Cross Continental shipping is EXPENSIVE for businesses and it takes time and yes they do have to pay TAXES and duty fees or whatever they want to call them.

[Ryanol]

Some more informative quotes by Sal on this topic. Yes, this topic has come up once or twice before before. I know- hard to believe

Thanks for posting all these comments they pretty much sum up exactly what I thought.

[PURPLEDC]

Sal also stated something about comparable wages so that $15 is $15 either in the Taiwan or the US or very close to it.

Even at the percentages that Sal stated it costs like $1.00 to $0.70 that's still $11.50 to $15.

Kinda like if 2 people had Jobs, one in Calf and the other in Virginia, both are making $15 an hour, not really the same due to the cost of living is so much higher in Calf and that difference in percentage would be a lot more than comparing Taiwan to the US.

Cross Continental shipping is EXPENSIVE for businesses and it takes time and yes they do have to pay TAXES and duty fees or whatever they want to call them.

I dont think your understanding what im saying. I realize that the wages are comparable. But only if that money stays in that country. If somone from taiwan brought their money to the US it would be worth 30 time less than what its worth in their country. If we took our money and exchanged it for taiwan money we would would have 30 times more money. So with sal and spyderco being a USA company if they are paying taiwan labor costs then they are paying reletively 30 times less than what they would be paying a similarly skilled US worker due to that exchange rate.

[Ankerson]

I dont think your understanding what im saying. I realize that the wages are comparable. But only if that money stays in that country. If somone from taiwan brought their money to the US it would be worth 30 time less than what its worth in their country. If we took our money and exchanged it for taiwan money we would would have 30 times more money. So with sal and spyderco being a USA company if they are paying taiwan labor costs then they are paying reletively 30 times less than what they would be paying a similarly skilled US worker due to that exchange rate.

No, it doesn't work that way.

You are confused.

And this is from someone who has been to a lot of different Countries in the past.

[Bull Mountain Custom]

I am glad to see the direction this thread has headed, started off a real train wreck but in the end has become very educational. I hope we can keep it on track going forward.

@purpledc, I would be happy to discuss exchange rates and why the taiwan wages, could equal U.S. wages if you want to send me a PM or email.

[Chipped Karambit]

No i get what he is saying, he said that sal is making a profit of selling his knives and spyderco should be a nonprofit instead.

[jtoler_9]

If somone from taiwan brought their money to the US it would be worth 30 time less than what its worth in their country. If we took our money and exchanged it for taiwan money we would would have 30 times more money.

What the? I have been out of Math class for a good long time now but you have lost me here? If we are using the original Sal statement (which seems foolish since currency exchange rates change all the time) of $1.00 US to $.70 in Taiwan thats a difference of 30% not 30 times. Those are 2 very different numbers. Am I missing the point? Or were you off?

[Ankerson]

What the? I have been out of Math class for a good long time now but you have lost me here? If we are using the original Sal statement (which seems foolish since currency exchange rates change all the time) of $1.00 US to $.70 in Taiwan thats a difference of 30% not 30 times. Those are 2 very different numbers. Am I missing the point? Or were you off?

Sounds like he is assuming that he would have 30 times more buying power over in Taiwan per Dollar and that's just not the case.

It's a typical mistake people make only from looking at the exchange rates, not taking into count what things really cost over in those Countries.

[jtoler_9]

Sounds like he is assuming that he would have 30 times more buying power over in Taiwan per Dollar and that's just not

that would make a little more sense. If that is the case he was making, I did misunderstand. But I do agree that a 30% delta in exchange netting 30 times more buying power seems a bit of a stretch to say the least.

[Ankerson]

that would make more sense and if that is the case he was making I did misunderstand. But I do agree that a 30% delta in exchange netting 30 times more buying power seems a bit of a stretch.

That's exactly what he was posting.....

[michaelm466]

I think what you're assuming PurpleEDC is that a coke in taiwan costs 2 tawian dollars and a coke in the US costs 2 US dollars, so if you brought $2 US over to taiwan you would have $60 taiwan and be able to buy 30 cokes.

However that's not how it works for example when I was in costa rica 1 US dollar = $400 Costa rican dollars, but a coke in costa rica costs $750 costa rica not $2 costa rican. A used honda cost $1,000,000 costa rican.

[jvarn81]

There are some point I agree with OP, some completely disagree. IMHO if somebody cares about "Pride of ownership", made in Taiwan doesn't fit there at least today in US. This is most people perception. Please, do not tell me about ignorance. Ignorance is relative term and all of us are ignorant in one or another areas. Of cause we do not feel this way. Also this is common perception that anything made in Taiwan should be less expensive than made in US. And this is correct in most of the cases, but most likely not applicable in this case. Big publicly owned companies and small family businesses are runs quite differently. For large corporation bottom line is profit. Business owner can make his decision based on some other factors, especially if he is knifenut like most of us (I hope not offense is taken).


Yes. I mentioned before on several occasions that I am ready to pay more for US made goods, especially knives.

I am not OP, but speaking in general, I do not have a problem to see profit go to foreign company, which invested money to create manufacturing jobs in US and supports American working people.

Well said bh.

[Ankerson]

I think what you're assuming PurpleEDC is that a coke in taiwan costs 2 tawian dollars and a coke in the US costs 2 US dollars, so if you brought $2 US over to taiwan you would have $60 taiwan and be able to buy 30 cokes.

However that's not how it works for example when I was in costa rica 1 US dollar = $400 Costa rican dollars, but a coke in costa rica costs $750 costa rica not $2 costa rican. A used honda cost $1,000,000 costa rican.

Yeah if a Coke costs $2 American, it's still worth $2 American, over in Taiwan in American Money it's $2 or N60.00$ Tiawan.

So one could hand the person 2 bucks American or N60.00$ over in Taiwan for the same Coke.

Doing some research is a good thing, look at prices of things over in Taiwan, then convert the currency to US Dollars and one will see what things really cost.

So if a person is making N90,000$ a year over there it might sound like a lot, but convert that to US Dollars and it's $30,000.

But say a Big Mac is $5 US or N150.00$.

[jstrange]

I won't buy knives from China or Taiwan regardless of the price. The quality of the product has nothing to do with it. If I'm paying that kind of money for a knife it should give me pride of ownership. I don't get that from knives from China or Taiwan. I know many people don't agree, but that's the truth for me and many others. Sure a luxury model Hyundai might be a good car, but it doesn't compare to the German or Japanese luxury brands in terms of perception. I know so many people will say they don't care about the perception of an item's origin and that quality is all that matters to them. Good for you if you can say that, but many picky consumers can't. For me a $256 knife is a collectible that I won't beat up and will be kept a very long time. Having China/Taiwan on the blade makes the knife much less collectible for me and many others. The knife does not have to be built in America for me to buy it either. Virtually any other countries of origin would be fine with me. For instance, German Bokers are much more appealing to me than the Chinese Bokers. I am not trying to convince people that love their Chinese/Taiwanese knives that they should think like me; I'm just giving my perspective. Also, having more criteria to consider when purchasing a knife keeps my buying low. I prefer to have a handful of knives, watches, guns, or whatever that I like in every way as opposed to buying dozens of items that catch my eye.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, I agree. It may be irrational, but I would rather my knives say "Made in America" on the blade. My brother had a very nice Cold Steel bowie knife that he tried to sell at a gun show one day and couldnt move it becuase once anyone saw "Made in Taiwan" they didnt want it, or thought it was "fake".

[PURPLEDC]

Ok I misunderstood what sal was saying in relation to exchange rates. On one hand he said that the key to making overseas manufacture profitable is in the exchange rate. The current exchange rate for USD to the Taiwan dollar is

1 US dollar = 29.94 TD

So my logic (flawed) was that since people say things cost the same in both countries in a literal sense of a dollar being a dollar. But if things cost the same in Taiwan as they do in the USA and the way I was looking at it was wrong then I dont understand why Sal said that the key to turning a profit was the exchange rate. This is a classic example of where I only know enough to get into trouble. Im not sure ill be able to wrap my head around it even if was explained to me.

No i get what he is saying, he said that sal is making a profit of selling his knives and spyderco should be a nonprofit instead.

I think we have moved on from the arguing so If you please lets not take stabs at each other anymore ok?