The Elephant in the Room.

[panzertroop]

I know. I am a fascist at heart. That's why I love this country!!

[BG42EDGE]

Here's a superb compilation of information about the roots of American Fascism and how it developed into the controlling power that it is today.

Fascism, though, embodied more than just that, because the once revolutionary institution of capitalism had now become the potential "victim" of the next revolution. Capitalism, once independent from the State and aligned with liberalism, then became aligned with elements of conservatism. The State and Capital together reached back into the Old World, grasped onto the Church, and called on the name of God Almighty to save them from revolution. This is fascism. The rejoining of Church, State, and Commerce into a unified and mutually supportive relationship for the maintenance of power.

The rise of fascism took a different, non-revolutionary, path in America than it took in Europe. European fascism was certainly more extreme and malignant, but it has to be repeated that the term "fascism" has an unfairly negative connotation today because of its association with the Axis powers. Describing the post Second World War American State as fascist isn't an attempt to stigmatize it, but rather to understand the qualities of the modern American State, for better or for worse, and to understand the many different factors that contributed to the establishment of the greatly more powerful American Federal Government during World War II and to what ends that power would be wielded in the second half of the 20th century.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...an_fascism.htm

[quietmike]

Again, I will ask, with no real expectation of an answer, how is Fascism worse than Socialism? Both are oppressive governments with terrible histories of atrocities against its citizens.

[jdm61]

This is old hat. The Socialists (read Republicans) in the Spanish Civil War assigned the term Fascists to their opponents because Italy supported them to some degree. While that term might have applied to some of the Phalangists, they were marginalized by Franco in short order. The "Loyalist" leadership was made up primarily of military men, royalists and Catholics. Franco probably saw himself as having more in common with someone like Charles Martel or a young Boris Godunov that Mussolini or Hitler.

[BG42EDGE]

I know. I am a fascist at heart. That's why I love this country!!

Gotta respect a truly honest man!!

[Preacher Man]

Here's a superb compilation of information about the roots of American Fascism and how it developed into the controlling power that it is today.



http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...an_fascism.htm

This source doesn't have an ounce of intellectual integrity or academic credibility. Its position, presentation, and conclusion are basically that America is fascist in the measure it opposes communism and socialism. Really? Anything that is related to capitalism is Fascist? Socialism = good, capitalism = bad? How can I see this as anything else but pure ideological prejudice? I personally do not support laissez fair capitalism for ethical reasons. The greed factor is such that without guidelines and regulation, the greedy will do anything to anyone in anyway they can to get what they want. But not everyone who is is business is like that, and PURE GREED is not the only motivation to get into business, which is why I do support SENSIBLE regulations and not EXCESSIVE regulations. I wouldn't dare to call those who support laissez fair capitalism fascists. Not only that would be an uncalled for generalization, it would be incorrect. The motivation behind fascism is not greed but nationalism.

[BG42EDGE]

This source doesn't have an ounce of intellectual integrity or academic credibility.

And that's because........it disagrees with you so competently and comprehensively?

The motivation behind fascism is not greed but nationalism.

Wait a minute. Fascists are so pure that they have no greed? How is it then, that the Fascist leaders are always rich?

Sure you're not thinking of pure communism?

Believe me when I say that Fascists are greedy. While it is true that the Tea Party Fascists are generally poor......they are most certainly greedy--and the people who program them are people like the Koch Brothers.

[Preacher Man]

I personally think that the Fascists learned some very important lessons after WW II. One of those was not to be too overt in their application of Fascist principles, and not to use a Dictator, but instead, to bend the governmental power to the needs and desires of the Corporate interests with money and positions. Let us not forget that Prescott Bush helped to finance the Nazi Party, and was investigated for doing business with the enemy during WW II.
I also think that the creation of ever newer labels helps to hide the true nature of various political movements.

Would a Muslim Theocracy more appropriately be called Islamo Fascism, or simply a Theocracy? After all, the Throcratic rulers direct the economic and political policies of the State. One or the other, or both?

In our Nation, the argument can be clearly made that Corporate interests dictate economic and political policy. (Simply follow the Money) The only differentiation appears to be WHO controls the Reigns of Power, Corporate leaders, Political Leaders, or Religious Leaders.

This is the thing, at least as I see this. The terms fascism, communism, socialism, crony capitalism, and theocracy represent different systems for a reason. It is true that oppression, is oppression regardless of the source, but those terms address both sources and characteristics. Although we can see and describe forms of fascism, communism, socialism, crony capitalism, and theocracy as oppressive, the source of each system and its characteristics are different. Let's put it like this. If you have an electric problem at home, in order to correct it you need to understand not only that you have an electric problem, but what the source of the problem is. Without understanding the cause and source of the problem, any attempt to correct the problem can be a waste of time and money. It can even make the problem worse.

[BG42EDGE]

The only differentiation appears to be WHO controls the Reigns of Power, Corporate leaders, Political Leaders, or Religious Leaders.

When you look at Obama's prayer breakfasts and his catering to religious zealots, the pious prayers in Congress, the "In God We Trust" on the money, the "Under God" in the Jingoistic pledges they force kids to say in school, the arguing about who is the "Most" or "Real" Christian in government, the Supreme Court's catering to Corporations so they can buy elections, the bankers running the Obama economic show, the Corpo lobbyists shadowing every politician.......

How can anybody not see that it's an alliance of evil interests (motivated by greed) that is the uniquely American form of Fascism?

[Preacher Man]

Could be. A Rose by any other name still stinks though.

As far as Nationalism goes; What is the State? Are Nationalistic interests being pursued? Or are those Corporate interests clothed in the garments of Nationalism when the mobilization of the masses is desired or required?

What is the State? The government, which is the functional expression of the will of the people. IMHO no country can exist without a healthy doze of national pride. National pride doesn't equate nationalism. Can economic interests use national pride for the benefit? Of Course, it's called advertising. But businessmen are also citizens and can show or reflect some national pride for that reason. Now, can some political, social, and/or corporate interest attempt to use nationalism to manipulate the country's direction. Yes, the danger exists, and some have attempted this already. This is why the ultimate power lies with the people. Citizens must be vigilant and informed. Of course, most citizens are not.

[BG42EDGE]

Citizens must be vigilant and informed. Of course, most citizens are not.

Indeed.

And how could they be informed when the major news media are owned by the rich Corpo interests and disseminate only misinformation that benefits themselves?

[BG42EDGE]

Take a look at this and tell me that the Corpos don't control every word that comes across American airwaves and print.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530.php

The Fascists rule the American information system and you hear, see and read ONLY what they want you to hear see and read unless you use the internet to find unbiased sources.

[Preacher Man]

And that's because........it disagrees with you so competently and comprehensively?

No, that is because it is trying to re-define fascism as any attempt to oppose communism or socialism. Basically under the thesis advanced by that paper, any action taken to oppose communism or socialism makes the individual into a fascist. That is how the author of the paper analizes and comments on particular events of American history. This is not only incorrect, it is patently false. This is why this article lacks intellectual integrity or academic credibility.

Wait a minute. Fascists are so pure that they have no greed? How is it then, that the Fascist leaders are always rich?

Sure you're not thinking of pure communism?

Most individuals who want to use and manipulate the system for their own benefit usually enrich themselves through the system, regardless of the system. When the Soviet Communist system fell, a number of officials and generals were able to make it out of the country very rich men. The Russian Mafia was primarily made of ex regional government officials and ex 1st and 2nd Directorate agents (the KGB and its military cousin). My point is, this phenomenon of enriching oneself through an oppressive system is only found in fascism.

Believe me when I say that Fascists are greedy. While it is true that the Tea Party Fascists are generally poor......they are most certainly greedy--and the people who program them are people like the Koch Brothers.

I know that fascist are greedy. So is usually anyone trying to benefit from the system. But are you referring to the Tea Party in general as a fascist ideology?

[BG42EDGE]

No, that is because it is trying to re-define fascism as any attempt to oppose communism or socialism. Basically under the thesis advanced by that paper, any action taken to oppose communism or socialism makes the individual into a fascist. That is how the author of the paper analizes and comments on particular events of American history. This is not only incorrect, it is patently false. This is why this article lacks intellectual integrity or academic credibility.

It doesn't say that at all.

It says that AMERICAN Fascism is a combination of flag-waving, Christian cross-waving and corporate influence that attempts to consolidate all power in the hands of those politicians who will work with corporate interests to increase the wealth of those corporate interests.

[BG42EDGE]

Most individuals who want to use and manipulate the system for their own benefit usually enrich themselves through the system, regardless of the system. When the Soviet Communist system fell, a number of officials and generals were able to make it out of the country very rich men. The Russian Mafia was primarily made of ex regional government officials and ex 1st and 2nd Directorate agents (the KGB and its military cousin).

All of which has nothing to do with "pure" communism.

[BG42EDGE]

Are you calling the Tea Party in general a fascist ideology?

Wrapped in the flag and waving the cross......as Sinclair Lewis so famously predicted.

They are co-conspirators and dupes of the Fascists, as shown by the Koch brothers control of the Wisconsin governor, his policies and his elections.

Every compulsion is put upon writers to become safe, polite, obedient, and sterile.
Sinclair Lewis

The middle class, that prisoner of the barbarian 20th century.
Sinclair Lewis

When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
--Sinclair Lewis
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...stKDJxMzvgA.99

[Preacher Man]

When you look at Obama's prayer breakfasts and his catering to religious zealots, the pious prayers in Congress, the "In God We Trust" on the money, the "Under God" in the Jingoistic pledges they force kids to say in school, the arguing about who is the "Most" or "Real" Christian in government, the Supreme Court's catering to Corporations so they can buy elections, the bankers running the Obama economic show, the Corpo lobbyists shadowing every politician.......

How can anybody not see that it's an alliance of evil interests (motivated by greed) that is the uniquely American form of Fascism?

So, in your opinion religious leaders are evil, the Supreme Court is evil, corporations and bankers are evil, lobbyist are evil... is there anyone outside communist or socialist ideology who is not evil? Like you I have problems with unrestricted greed, but I don't have a problem with capitalism, and that is the real issue here. Is anything that opposes communism or socialism greedy, evil, or fascist?

[Hog Feet]

Nationalism can be used for good:

Capture.jpg

[BG42EDGE]

So, in your opinion religious leaders are evil, the Supreme Court is evil, corporations and bankers are evil, lobbyist are evil...

You said that, I didn't.

[BG42EDGE]

Is anything that opposes communism or socialism greedy, evil, or fascist?

Do you mean "is everything?"

Then the answer would be no.