Count down to serious change

[OliverH]

If healthcare is a constitutional right,anyone with both feet across the border is covered.Btw,most illegals do have bogus documentation.

I think you response indicates you don't have a very good grasp on what the health care bill really does or is about. I think you are also mistaken about "most" illegals having false documents. If this were true, then what would be the point of the "show us your papers" law in Arizona that conservatives seem to think is so necessary?

[OliverH]

We're off point, but I gotta' say it; You catch more slaves with honey (entitlements) than you do with vinegar (dogs and chains).

But by this reasoning, then rich people and businesses are the slaves of the GOP, who look after their interests.

[OliverH]

ER's all over the country have been living under that little reality for years.

That's really quite a different situation, having to do with humanitarian values and the ethics and obligations accepted by the health care community. Emergency rooms simply do not turn people away or ask for papers when somebody shows up seriously ill or injured, and this is as it should be. Here's a fact sheet from the American College of Emergency Physicians on the subject.

[ttoney83]

One of the main reasons why I do the job that I do is so that I have health care for myself and my kids. I don't particularly like my job, mind you. But it pays well, and it gives me good health care.

The government just took away one of the two big reasons for me to spend a large portion of my day doing things that I don't really want to do. This is because I'm pretty sure that within a few years my employer-paid healthcare benefits are going to disappear thanks to ObamaCare.

Then will come the massive tax increases necessary to keep ObamaCare afloat, especially considering that they're going to cover a lot of off-the-books works. And the half of this country that doesn't pay income taxes anyway. Once those tax increases hit, I'll lose the other big incentive that I have to keep doing this job.

Then what?

Maybe I'll go stand in the parking lot at Home Depot begging people to give me day work, so that I can work off the books too. What the hell. If being a producer of wealth in this country is just going to turn me into a tax slave, then I might as well become a blood sucker too.

I have chosen to do without health care most of my life. It has saved me thousands of dollars. I will not participate in this; I too will quit my job and hang out looking for day work, or doing odd jobs for cash.

[555]

But by this reasoning, then rich people and businesses are the slaves of the GOP, who look after their interests.

You may want to get up to speed.

Those “Evil, Rich People” – are Democrats


http://newamericangazette.com/2011/0...ple-democrats/

[Triton]

So my son doesn't have any health insurance (and I believe he should have some) and he normally gets a small tax refund every year. If he doesn't buy health insurance, can I suspect that his tax refund will be less? I think so.

Yes, it will be less, not only that but he can be penalized for not paying the rest AND he will be enrolled in a health exchange of some bueracrat's choosing.

I'm trying to figure out how this decision will impact the "regular Joe's" in the US. I, for example, have health insurance so how will it impact me and others like me? I suspect that my quality of care will be degraded... Same number of doctors, more patient load equals a lesser quality of service for me as I see it.

Well, for the most part if you currently have company provided (or partially provided) health care you can expect to lose it sometime in the next 10 years. One third of companies have already said that they are planning on dropping health coverage, why wouldn't they? It's cheaper and less hassle for them to drop it and pay the fines, and they can tell their employees that they can all go to the government for their healthcare now. You can expect the quality of care to degrade across the board and most major insurers will either go out of business or be nothing more than government controlled puppets. You can expect a multitude of new taxes and fewer health care options. Eventually I would expect rationing a la Britain's NHS. As health care costs continue to climb out of control you can expect the government to pass new taxes and / or start taking control of other aspects of your life. You will no longer be covered if you participate in non-government sanctioned activities that someone in Washington has deemed to be "risky."

[Triton]

That's really quite a different situation, having to do with humanitarian values and the ethics and obligations accepted by the health care community. Emergency rooms simply do not turn people away or ask for papers when somebody shows up seriously ill or injured, and this is as it should be. Here's a fact sheet from the American College of Emergency Physicians on the subject.

... and ERs all over the country have been going out of business. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If anyone thinks that they are getting "free" healthcare out of obamacare they are sadly, sadly mistaken.

[Triton]

Why would this put anyone on Romney's side. He innovated the entire program in Massachusettes. Didn't he??????

...because he has said that he will do everything he can to repeal obamacare on day one. That's enough for me.

[quietmike]

Why would this put anyone on Romney's side. He innovated the entire program in Massachusettes. Didn't he??????

Exactly. Romney will not do anything significantly different than the current president. This country and our Constitution are done unless the People can effect a purge in the Congress of all of the subversive elements within it who voted for this abomination to Liberty.

Because of the tenth amendment. It allows states much more leeway then the feds. Nothing in the constitution precludes states from implementing such a plan.

[Triton]

One of the main reasons why I do the job that I do is so that I have health care for myself and my kids. I don't particularly like my job, mind you. But it pays well, and it gives me good health care.

The government just took away one of the two big reasons for me to spend a large portion of my day doing things that I don't really want to do. This is because I'm pretty sure that within a few years my employer-paid healthcare benefits are going to disappear thanks to ObamaCare.

Then will come the massive tax increases necessary to keep ObamaCare afloat, especially considering that they're going to cover a lot of off-the-books works. And the half of this country that doesn't pay income taxes anyway. Once those tax increases hit, I'll lose the other big incentive that I have to keep doing this job.

Then what?

Maybe I'll go stand in the parking lot at Home Depot begging people to give me day work, so that I can work off the books too. What the hell. If being a producer of wealth in this country is just going to turn me into a tax slave, then I might as well become a blood sucker too.

Mr. Galt... is that you?

[Triton]

I think you response indicates you don't have a very good grasp on what the health care bill really does or is about. I think you are also mistaken about "most" illegals having false documents. If this were true, then what would be the point of the "show us your papers" law in Arizona that conservatives seem to think is so necessary?

... and I think that this is just another democrat being disengenuos. The obama has made it quite clear that he's trying to make all those illegals legal. Then they too will be eligible for obamacare.

[555]

Mr. Galt... is that you?

Yes, Who is John Galt?

[Triton]

I think Romney said it pretty well just now:

This presidential election is "a choice," Romney said. "You can choose whether you want to have a larger and larger government, more and more intrusive in your life—separating you and your doctor—whether you're comfortable with more deficits, higher debt that we pass onto the coming generations. Whether you're willing to have the government put in place a plan that potentially causes you to lose the insurance that you like or whether instead you want to return to a time when the American people will have their own choice in healthcare. Where consumers will be able to make their choices as to what kind of health insurance they want."

"This is the time of choice for the American people," Romney said.

Romney concluded: "Help us. Help us defeat Obamacare. Help us defeat the liberal agenda that makes government too big, too intrusive, and is killing jobs across this great country."

You don't have to like Romney, but you've got a choice. Vote for the guy that foisted this abomination upon us... or vote for the guy that says he is going to get rid of it. One of them will be president. You choose.

[not2sharp]

I think Romney said it pretty well just now:



You don't have to like Romney, but you've got a choice. Vote for the guy that foisted this abomination upon us... or vote for the guy that says he is going to get rid of it. One of them will be president. You choose.

As far as I am concerned they are both responsible for this abomination and neither is worthy of my support.

n2s

[Triton]

As far as I am concerned they are both responsible for this abomination and neither is worthy of my support.

n2s

Again, you have a choice. Vote for one or vote for the other. One definitely will do nothing to get rid of obamacare, one says he will get rid of it. One of them WILL be president whether you vote for them or not. You choose.

[ron_m80]

Taxation without representation. If 75% of the country opposed this law, than we are not represented are we?

[OliverH]

One of the main reasons why I do the job that I do is so that I have health care for myself and my kids. I don't particularly like my job, mind you. But it pays well, and it gives me good health care.

The government just took away one of the two big reasons for me to spend a large portion of my day doing things that I don't really want to do. This is because I'm pretty sure that within a few years my employer-paid healthcare benefits are going to disappear thanks to ObamaCare.

Then will come the massive tax increases necessary to keep ObamaCare afloat, especially considering that they're going to cover a lot of off-the-books works. And the half of this country that doesn't pay income taxes anyway. Once those tax increases hit, I'll lose the other big incentive that I have to keep doing this job.

Then what?

Maybe I'll go stand in the parking lot at Home Depot begging people to give me day work, so that I can work off the books too. What the hell. If being a producer of wealth in this country is just going to turn me into a tax slave, then I might as well become a blood sucker too.

Alternatively, you might be able to quit the job you hate and find something you like better, or start your own business, knowing in both cases that you won't be losing all health benefits for yourself and your family. You aren't alone in this. There are a lot of people in your same situation who are trapped in a job from fear of losing health coverage, unable to start working for themselves or to take a chance on a growing company where the long-term opportunities might be better. Overall I would say that being trapped in a job because of such circumstances is something of a bad thing. And as a practical matter, doesn't the ability now to leave without having to worry about losing health care represent MORE freedom, not less?

By the way, if you decide to bail on work entirely, my recommendation for a good begging scheme is to buy a few bouquets of flowers, then send one of your small cute children (assuming they are small and cute) through restaurants to sell them to diners. This used to happen to me a lot in restaurants in the Mission, and my dates would often end up with a nice red rose to go with their enchiladas.

[555]

Again, you have a choice. Vote for one or vote for the other. One definitely will do nothing to get rid of obamacare, one says he will get rid of it. One of them WILL be president whether you vote for them or not. You choose.

Voting by what they say is gamble, voting by what they have done, actions speak louder than words.

[t1mpani]

I think Roberts' comment is an interesting one:

"It's not my job to protect people from the consequences of their political choices."

I tend to agree, disappointed in today's ruling though I am. The country decided to elect the twit-in-chief, and we're reaping what we've sown. Want to fix this garbage? Get him out of office---I'm looking at you, conservatives who want to sit out the presidential election because their favorite little candidate didn't get the nomination. There is a real possibility that Republicans can gain a small majority control over Congress this November, but almost impossible that it will be large enough to defeat a presidential veto, and if Obama is there he absolutely WILL stop an effort to repeal. Romney will support a repeal--not because he's a super-duper conservative but because he's promised repeal all through the nomination process. Romney was not my choice either, but he is what we've got. If you categorically refuse to support him because you think that anyone out there, right or left, is going to be impressed by you writing "Ron Paul" or "Rick Perry" on your ballot in a protest vote, I'm sorry but you're an extraordinarily stupid human being, and the answer to liberals' wildest hopes. The "Romney's not really different from Obama" argument is similarly insipid from a practical standpoint. Whatever his personal views, he will be an official elected by conservative money and a conservative constituency, and dependent upon that constituency for reelection, which will play into decisions of policy and also judicial appointment. This is not true of his opponent.

Romney is not my sword of choice, but the fight is coming and if my options are to use what I've got and TRY to protect what's important, or to just roll over and declare it hopeless and allow the other side to win, then I know which route I'll take. Those who'd choose the second option likely are weak, whiney, and pathetically helpless enough to require the very nanny state we're moving towards. If you're going to sit it out and be useless, then you are a supporter of the liberal cause.

[annr]

Because of the tenth amendment. It allows states much more leeway then the feds. Nothing in the constitution precludes states from implementing such a plan.

You would be correct. Taking health care on a state-by-state case is far different than a Federal edict-like tax.

The healthcare system in this State is radically different than most other parts of the Nation: we have more doctors, what is considered some of the largest array of care options at every level, for every illness, and consequently some of the highest insurance premiums. Boston, and MA, is a mecca for healthcare, biotech, medical device, drug research, basic medical research, and medical education. Many medical institutions are tax-exempt and occupy large areas of prime real estate, creating a burden on the coffers to cover free care. Note, the large reliance on Medicine and Education in this State have kept our economy more stable than in other States, another indication that we are different in this respect-- and relative to our healthcare and education sectors.

Romney and his Democrat legislature were addressing problems of this State. (The genesis and passage of "Romeny Care" is not as black and white as the media would portray.)

Although "wait times" for healthcare are said to have grown, they are still far shorter than in other States. Though I see in the news that primary care physicians are not accepting new patients and that you can not get the doctor of your choice, this has been the case for decades--not all doctors accept new patients.

Be that as it may, if Romney Care is a failure, why repeat it on a nation-wide population? Why isn't repeal better than not?