Count down to serious change

[quietmike]

The point is that you're making accusations of "pandering" and "buying off," etc. against one's opponents when one's friends can be equally well (or equally poorly) accused of the same thing. The "slavery" touch is especially slanderous and IMO not entirely honest, despite your careful disclaimer that you're not talking about blacks. Realistically, the original "new plantation" trope by the conservatives is precisely applied to how Democrats supposedly "enslave" blacks with social policy. There is no other application of such rhetoric that either bites or matters.

Anyway, the fact is that all policies will benefit some more than others, and often to somebody's disadvantage (or at least displeasure), so that anybody who either favors or opposes a policy can be accused of "pandering" to somebody. The dishonesty at the bottom of all such accusations (at least in the absence of evidence to support it) is that it assumes that the "panderer" is acting against what he knows is a wider public interest. This is of a piece with your accusations of "envy" against those who would raise taxes on the rich. In both cases it attributes evil motive to a whole group of people without offering any evidence for it.

The GOP "favors" the rich by letting them keep more of their own money, while the dems feel entitled to it.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

[Triton]

You're already paying social security without a choice. I'm not saying its perfect but its a starting point that can be changed as necessary.

Okay, consider what a disaster social security is and then you want to tell us that it's a good thing that we are signed up for another trillion dollar disaster? If they let me out of social security tomorrow I'd take it and even let them keep the money they have already taken from me.

If you don't like the limit on your insurance coverage, fine go buy more. What are you going to do when your health insurance is controlled by the government and they tell you that they aren't going to allow you to spend any more tax payer money? That's exactly what's going to happen and you will have no recourse. I amend what I said earlier. You actually want to trade your freedom for the promise of security.

What will you do when your government tells you that if you don't purchase a chevy volt that you will be taxed to support Chevy?

[darrin sanders]

Until you have a major illness and no health coverage you don't know what "depressing" is.

[quietmike]

It was a tax to begin with, the only people claiming it WASN'T a tax were the Democrats during the debate, who knew they'd be defeated if they called it a tax. When it came time to defend it in court, the administration defended it as a tax. Nobody paid any attention to the man behind the curtain during the original process. I'm not in the mood to buy Roberts a beer at the moment, but I think he's being true to what power his position actually affords him, which is remarkable only for its extreme contrast with the president.

I concur. After watching Roberts throughout the confirmation process and studying his background, I was hard-pressed to think that a more qualified jurist could be found. Roberts said repeatedly in the confirmation hearings that one of his goals was to reduce the number of 5-4 decisions....

Am I the only one that notices that SCOTUS opposed it being a "mandate", but just change that word to tax, without changing anything else, and magically all is good?

[quietmike]

Until you have a major illness and no health coverage you don't know what "depressing" is.

Such is life. Choices carry consequences. All the government programs in the world won't change that simple fact.

[darrin sanders]

May I ask what choices and consequences you're talking about.

[OliverH]

May I ask what choices and consequences you're talking about.

Your choice to have a major illness, of course.

Thanks for participating here and putting a human face on the situation, by the way. Though I'm sorry for what you had to go through, and hope you're mostly back up to snuff now.

[Triton]

Until you have a major illness and no health coverage you don't know what "depressing" is.

I repeat:

If you don't like the limit on your insurance coverage, fine go buy more. What are you going to do when your health insurance is controlled by the government and they tell you that they aren't going to allow you to spend any more tax payer money? That's exactly what's going to happen and you will have no recourse. I amend what I said earlier. You actually want to trade your freedom for the promise of security.

[Triton]

Your choice to have a major illness, of course.

Thanks for participating here and putting a human face on the situation, by the way. Though I'm sorry for what you had to go through, and hope you're mostly back up to snuff now.

Don't be absurd, it's a choice as to whether or not you have health coverage or not. Or at least it used to be. Now you no longer have that freedom.

It is nice to have a "face" for the people that are going to have a hand in my pocket though. Thanks awfully.

[quietmike]

May I ask what choices and consequences you're talking about.

Don't be absurd, it's a choice as to whether or not you have health coverage or not. Or at least it used to be. Now you no longer have that freedom.

This of course.

[darrin sanders]

I wish I could go get insurance elsewhere. I had insurance and maxed it out & had no more coverage. Now I have pre-existing conditions and can't get insurance until 2014. My hand has never been and will never be in your pocket and I don't appreciate you suggesting it.

[Triton]

I wish I could go get insurance elsewhere. I had insurance and maxed it out & had no more coverage. Now I have pre-existing conditions and can't get insurance until 2014. My hand has never been and will never be in your pocket and I don't appreciate you suggesting it.

I see, so you can get existing coverage in 2014, who do you suppose is going to be paying for your preexisting conditions? In short just where do you think the money from that disaster is going to come from?

[darrin sanders]

Its gonna come from the pocket I have my hand in. BAHAHAHAHAH Glad I could make your day sir.

[Triton]

Its gonna come from the pocket I have my hand in. BAHAHAHAHAH Glad I could make your day sir.

It is indeed going to come from the pockets of your fellow taxpayers. In short, you are going to have everyone else paying your medical bills. Congratulations. As those bills continue to rise eventually the government will decide that it can no longer afford to provide you with medical care... and you will have no recourse.

[darrin sanders]

Whether ya like it or not Obamacare is here and here to stay. I for one am elated. That is all.

[quietmike]

Whether ya like it or not Obamacare is here and here to stay. I for one am elated. That is all.

Since you brought it up what is your pre-existing condition?

[Triton]

Whether ya like it or not Obamacare is here and here to stay.

I really really hope that this is incorrect, both for my sake and for the sake of the country.

I for one am elated. That is all.

People often are when they think they are getting something for nothing. It's when the time comes to pay the bill that they often wish they would have thought things through.

[darrin sanders]

Your choice to have a major illness, of course.

Thanks for participating here and putting a human face on the situation, by the way. Though I'm sorry for what you had to go through, and hope you're mostly back up to snuff now.

Thanks Oliver, if any of these naysayers or their family members ever find themselves in a situation like mine they will change their minds. I wont go into details but I only scratched the surface of all the trouble our health care system has caused me.

[darrin sanders]

Since you brought it up what is your pre-existing condition?

I don't think that is any of your business. Does it really matter anyway?

[quietmike]

I don't think that is any of your business. Does it really matter anyway?

So its none of our business, except to foot the bill. Typical.