Count down to serious change

[quietmike]

I was rhetorically suggesting that the artist do so, and maybe they wouldn't have to resort to such a weak correlative argument. There are plenty of rational fiscal arguments against Obama's healthcare initiative. But if you really need me to say it: comparing very conservative Southern slaveowners in 1861--who happened to call themselves "Democrats"--to very liberal "Democrats" of today is to focus only on the nomenclature and totally ignore the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum that those groups occupy, simply to score the cheap point of being able to say "Democrats have always done stuff that I don't like." Again--I was just calling out the cartoonist for being lazy.

The only difference is the democrats changed tactics. After the civil war they could no longer own slaves so they gave the workers wages "in the field" then took them back once the workers returned home. Whether you force someone to work for free or steal their wages, it is still slavery. Democrats abandoned conservative principles for socialism to make their slavery more palatable.
Whether dressed as Colonel Sanders or in a Brooks Brothers suit, it has always been democrats who felt they were entitled run the lives of others.

[philwar]

Triton, you don't honestly think this is a sea change, do you? We haven't been a truly "free" nation for a while, now. This is incremental; and it's been occurring regularly...in fact, I don't doubt that the left is already planning their next step. Who knows...that may well be gun control, based on a couple of reports I've read surrounding Holder's contempt vote. At some point, perhaps you'll understand what I mean when I predict that civil war is coming. It's not that I WANT it...sadly, the situation may well have passed the point of no return and become it's own engine, human nature being what it is.

I agree with this assessment. US citizens may be more free than most other people in the world, but they're not truly free by any meaningful definition of the word.

[BlackKnight86]

I was rhetorically suggesting that the artist do so, and maybe they wouldn't have to resort to such a weak correlative argument. There are plenty of rational fiscal arguments against Obama's healthcare initiative. But if you really need me to say it: comparing very conservative Southern slaveowners in 1861--who happened to call themselves "Democrats"--to very liberal "Democrats" of today is to focus only on the nomenclature and totally ignore the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum that those groups occupy, simply to score the cheap point of being able to say "Democrats have always done stuff that I don't like." Again--I was just calling out the cartoonist for being lazy.

It seems to me that you are the one focusing on nomenclature. "Conservative" and "liberal" labels as applied to the political parties don't mean anything. What you need to look at are the philosophical basis behind why they do what they do; and that will help illuminate the past, as well. Look in particular at the ways the old Democrats of the South evolved into the Democrats of today; and you will see the connection.

Edited to add: QuietMike beat me to it!

[OliverH]

^^^^ THIS is the key. This now bounces back to the Electorate. So... how important is it that "we" retain control of the house AND most importantly TAKE control of the Senate this time around (wouldn't hurt to oust the Obama also)?

The BIG PUSH needs to be to take control of the Senate (I'm fairly confident that we will retain the house), so votes do matter.

Spread the word; Take control of Congress.

This might just be the "kick in the pants" that some needed to force them to pay attention. My father used to say; "Sometimes you have to FIRST hit a mule in the head with a 2X4 to get his attention before he will pay attention to you."

The "Fat lady" hasn't sung yet...

Unless the Repugs manage to get a 60-vote supermajority in the Senate, something nobody really expects, overturning the law could be pretty hard. You live by the filibuster, you die by the filibuster.

[skyhorse]

Unintended consequences? Will they tax the s@%t out of anything deemed unhealthy by the government?

[OliverH]

Since healthcare is now covered under the Constitution will there be a new tidal wave of illegal immigration?

I don't get this particular trope. Illegals can't get food stamps or welfare or that stuff, either, at least not without bogus documentation. The same thing would apply here, wouldn't it? In any case, illegals don't generally come here for government benefits, but for work. Hence the huge drop in illegal immigration over the last few years.

[timcsaw]

The only difference is the democrats changed tactics. After the civil war they could no longer own slaves so they gave the workers wages "in the field" then took them back once the workers returned home. Whether you force someone to work for free or steal their wages, it is still slavery. Democrats abandoned conservative principles for socialism to make their slavery more palatable.
Whether dressed as Colonel Sanders or in a Brooks Brothers suit, it has always been democrats who felt they were entitled run the lives of others.

We're off point, but I gotta' say it; You catch more slaves with honey (entitlements) than you do with vinegar (dogs and chains). And I'm NOT just referring to people of the black race.

Welcome to the new "Plantation".

=========================

BACK ON POINT

So my son doesn't have any health insurance (and I believe he should have some) and he normally gets a small tax refund every year. If he doesn't buy health insurance, can I suspect that his tax refund will be less? I think so.

I'm trying to figure out how this decision will impact the "regular Joe's" in the US. I, for example, have health insurance so how will it impact me and others like me? I suspect that my quality of care will be degraded... Same number of doctors, more patient load equals a lesser quality of service for me as I see it.

What about the "poor" person who doesn't have any insurance and no money to buy it? Will they face a "tax" and see less in their tax refunds? What about the companies who offer health insurance but can get away cheaper by dropping their cost share plans and paying the "tax" instead? Those who used to be covered by the cost-share plans which their company drops? Tax them if they don't buy a plan themselves? Since no one can be denied health insurance for an existing condition, could many drop their current health-care plans, pay the "tax" instead and then call an insurance company on their way to the hospital in an ambulance because they are 150 pounds over weight, smoke 2 packs a day and are suffering a heart attack? "Hey Insurance company, I need health-insurance NOW because I need a quadruple-by-pass and you CAN'T refuse to pay for it even though I haven't been paying premiums for years in advance!"

What happens to "the regular Joe's"?

[timcsaw]

Unless the Repugs manage to get a 60-vote supermajority in the Senate, something nobody really expects, overturning the law could be pretty hard. You live by the filibuster, you die by the filibuster.

We shall see.... (Aheeme... I think Harry Reid would disagree with the idea that a filibuster can stop some things. You live by the procedural loop-holes, you die by the procedural loop-holes. )

SWISH, BANG... hear that sound? That's the sound of a 2X4 being swung and impacting the mules forehead.

[skyhorse]

I don't get this particular trope. Illegals can't get food stamps or welfare or that stuff, either, at least not without bogus documentation. The same thing would apply here, wouldn't it? In any case, illegals don't generally come here for government benefits, but for work. Hence the huge drop in illegal immigration over the last few years.

If healthcare is a constitutional right,anyone with both feet across the border is covered.Btw,most illegals do have bogus documentation.

[quietmike]

Unintended consequences? Will they tax the shit out of anything deemed unhealthy by the government?

Try buying a Big Gulp in New York

[MVF]

I can't wait to see the arguments on this, I can't believe it was upheld. I was scared when the 2nd was only upheld by 5-4, but now I'm terrified. This potentially let's the government into every area of our lives.

[ttoney83]

Ooh, rolly eye smiley. Guess you told me.

Yep, I did.....

[timcsaw]

If healthcare is a constitutional right,anyone with both feet across the border is covered.

ER's all over the country have been living under that little reality for years. With the new edict by the Obama that limits deportation (gives back-door amnesty), and now this, expect it to get much worse.

[555]

Well, here we go again.

Barack Obama's version of "read my lips NO NEW TAXES"



Born into a free country only to live to see it year by year erode away into a socialist state.

[ttoney83]

Many moons ago as a school boy,I was taught about the U.S. Constitution.The founding fathers intent was pretty clear.Fast forward to today and the highest court in the land can't even seem to understand.Split decisions make my jaw drop.

No surprise. For over one hundred years now the enemies of the Constitution and of Liberty have been twisting definitions and the clearly written intent of the Founders to suit thier efforts to destroy the Constitution and the Republic. looks like today they've succeeded once again. I will not live under a Dictatorship which tells me that I MUST buy something. I WILL NOT PARTICIPATE! I've saved myself THOUSANDS of dollars CHOOSING not to have insurance over the years.

[skyhorse]

Oh well,now I'm gonna have to work even harder pointing illegals the way to San Fransisco.

[ttoney83]

Indeed, the Supreme Court has in essence just told us that the government can force us to purchase anything it wants and call it a "tax."

The only two options we have now remaining or to kick the obama and his merry crew out in November or continue our slide into soft tyranny. A sad day indeed.

My fate is sealed now....I WILL NOT participate.....

[skyhorse]

ER's all over the country have been living under that little reality for years. With the new edict by the Obama that limits deportation (gives back-door amnesty), and now this, expect it to get much worse.

Oh yeah,besides living smack ass on the border both my daughters are medical professionals.I know all about it.

[not2sharp]

Oh yeah,besides living smack ass on the border both my daughters are medical professionals.I know all about it.

There goes employer provided health care....and probably private health insurance industry along with it. It will be much easier to pay the $2000 penalty per employee then to pay 5x that in coverage costs plus setting up an entire department to comply with the multiple requirements of this law. Health care in the US is now up to Congress - they broke it - they own it.

n2s

[555]

I can't wait to see the arguments on this, I can't believe it was upheld. I was scared when the 2nd was only upheld by 5-4, but now I'm terrified. This potentially let's the government into every area of our lives.

After seeing land rights go away, I believe gun rights are only a generation away. Once a right is taken away and the generation that lived with and enjoyed a right grows old and passes away, to the next generation it's like the right never existed because of never knowing the right in their lifetime.