Scandi vs Sabre - help me understand

[tjswarbrick]

Hi guys.
I have an FPR BK-16. It was sabre-ground before it hit a belt and gained a convex edge. I once called is scandi ground, and realize the error of my ways. (Ethan called it sabre, so sabre it is.)
I absolutely love it, by the way.

I'm trying to understand the physical geometric difference(s) between a sabre and a scandi grind.

I've seen threads where people love one and hate the other, and others where each is nearly as good as the other - I'm not interested in starting one of those.
I've done searches, here and elsewhere, and the photos I see of them look largely the same:

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(Exept symmetrical and all - photobucket's giving me fits, so I can't post better right now.)

I've even found more than one very descriptive, supposedly knowledgeable, knife geometry site which says sabre /saber is alternatively known as scandi or Scandinavian.

Can you help me figure out what I'm missing?
Is it a matter of the length of the flats compared to the length of the grind?
Steepness of the primary bevel?
Does Sabre have a secondary bevel, where Scandi does not?
Maybe a change in cross-section from tip to ricasso?
Do they need to come from Norway, Finland, Sweden or Denmark to be called Scandi?
Something else?

I'm asking here because Beckerheads are great at helping noobs, and offering opinions without bashing too hard (save the occasional necessary snark.)
If there's already a definitive thread answering this question, feel free to guide me there. Or, you know, post the link.

Please, share your knowledge, and elevate my mind.
Thanks!

- Tom

[Nsvens89]

This is my understanding



The one on the left is the scandi line 5 points to the cutting edge where on a sabre grind knife (the one on the right) line 3 points to the cutting edge. Basically the sabre grind is a really high scandi grind with a microbevil added to the cutting edge. If someone else can explain it better please do to. I am by no means a word smith. Hope that helps.

[Tylerxp]

Here's the way I understand it.

Saber grinds are any grind toward mid-line (symetrical) that does not include the entire blade. This can be with or without a secondary bevel.

Scandi do not have a secondary bevel.

So Scandi grind is a type of Sabre grind (without the secondary bevel).

I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I was told at a knife show once.

[Hunter Sharp]

That's why I use a convex grind

[richdkao]

Here's the way I understand it.

Saber grinds are any grind toward mid-line (symetrical) that does not include the entire blade. This can be with or without a secondary bevel.

Scandi do not have a secondary bevel.

So Scandi grind is a type of Sabre grind (without the secondary bevel).

I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I was told at a knife show once.

What he said.

[tjswarbrick]

Awesome. Thanks guys - that's just what I needed.

[thatotherguy]

Does Sabre have a secondary bevel, where Scandi does not?

Exactly. The way I understand it, the Sabre (or Saber) has a secondary bevel but a Scandi is more or less zero ground from the top of the grind.

[CamH_16]

Here's the way I understand it.

Saber grinds are any grind toward mid-line (symetrical) that does not include the entire blade. This can be with or without a secondary bevel.

Scandi do not have a secondary bevel.

So Scandi grind is a type of Sabre grind (without the secondary bevel).

I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I was told at a knife show once.

Actually some scandi grinds DO have a secondary bevel, the Enzo Trapper is avalible with a secondary bevel and all of the Habilis Bushtool range have a secondary bevel.

[Carlos Oak]

Let i put it here.
Scandi is a sub tipe off sabre grind in witch the bevel is closer tothe edge.
The fact of having a second bevel doenst matter. And it can be convexed.

A sabre but not scandi:
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A sabre and scandi:
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[parbajtor]

Basically all been said, but be aware older scandi blades actually started off as hollow ground bevels done on big stone wheels. The use of waterstones over time turn them into flat grinds.

[BokerLover]

Would it be safe to say that a scandi grind is simply a half flat grind? Kinda like a full flat grind stopped halfway. And, is it always flat and never convex? This is the best thread ive found yet but im still confused.

[kvaughn]

I put a micro convex on my scandi's to keep from chipping the full zero edge. I use 6000grit sand paper on a pad that gives a LITTLE and then a leather strap.--KV

[KevinOubre]

I wouldn't really say a scandi is a type of sabre grind. A sabre is ground around mid spine or higher with whatever secondary bevel you prefer. A scandi is more of a double chisel grind i guess you could say. I suppose you could set a scandi bevel that high but I have never seen it. They are usually around a half in to at most 3/4 of an inch.

[C_Tanner]

Here's my dumbed down version, IMO:

Scandi= Worst grind ever invented

Saber= Best grind ever invented

[KevinOubre]

Here's my dumbed down version, IMO:

Scandi= Worst grind ever invented

Saber= Best grind ever invented

This just killed my soul! I absolutely love scandis. For a 4" blade I don't think there is a better edge, at least in terms of a woods knife. Nothing works wood as well or as long as a scandi. Can't get enough of them. I think it would be amazing if Mr. Becker made one. BUt hey, different strokes for different folks! At least all of us have great taste in knives with our Beckers!

[pap11y]

Thanks to the poster and responses as I now understand this.

The whole "a scandi is a sabre without the second grind" would have made my brain melt if I didn't see the pics

[oXide]

The way I understand it is the same way Carlos Oak described it; A scandi is always a sabre, but a sabre is not always a scan I.

Scandi having a shorter grind than sabres typically.

[momouppa]

I believe that sabre grinds start much higher up the blade and have a thinner angle. Scandi grinds start closer to the edge and have a wider angle if I recall correctly I have seen moras with a secondary bevel that are classified as a scandi grind.