"Blued" Blades

[AussieBosun]

G'day , i recently bought this Duck's 153 with blued blade (if that's the right term) and gold etch , does anyone know how Schrade achieved the finnish on these really nice knives .....
[IMG][/IMG]

[lrv]

The DU153 from 2000
"Special 153 with Black Delrin handles, Blued Carbon blade with gold etch, antique brass handle shield, polished brass guard and hallmark. Plain white box will be screened with gold duck head and Ducks Unlimited." Order was for 3000-3500 with a ship date of 11/00.
Great looking knife.

[koldgold]

Hi Aussie, Schrade also made a 34OT that sold only at Walmart (I think) called a “24OTX”, It also had blued blades.
I have blued my gun from time to time with an acid gel, I get from a gun shop.
However, to get it that good they must have had a high-teck acid bath. KG

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/...&image_id=6377

[AussieBosun]

Thank's for the info Larry , it's much appreciated.
Ken , unfortunately i don't have a 240TX to compare , but i'm still unsure about the use of acid as this 153 has a really deep lustre similar to black chrome.
The blade is actually darker than what the pic's suggest under the light , I have seen the larger bowie style Schrade ducks advertised as "hi-polished gun blued".

[Codger_64]

The 24OTX was titanium Nitride coated, IIRC. Perhaps Larry (LRV, aka irv) will post up his example? I am pretty sure he has a complete NIB one.

[lrv]

[lrv]

the whole X series

[Codger_64]

the whole X series

You left one out. The "missing link" from the '04 catalog.

[lrv]

Here is a paragraph that Michael and I worked up on the X series a few years ago on the 24OTX. The Missing X series knife Michael spoke of does exist. The XT4 is incomplete. We have a blade blank but no handles. We have a shortline artist drawing but sadly none have surfaces completed.
Michael's paragraph..
The first X-Timer we’ll look at was a SFO from Wal-Mart. Not seen elsewhere, and not distributed to all Wal-Marts, the 24OTX was the smallest X-Timer, and really an updated traditional slip-joint design, rather than an entirely new one. Built on the 3 5/16" frame of the 34OT Middleman stockman, the 24OTX used the same 2 ½" clip master blade, but instead of having sheepfoot and spey blades, used the 1 3/4" pen blade from the 33OT set in the other end, as with the smaller 104OT Minuteman predecessor pattern. This resulted in a slimmer profile, both blades operating with a common backspring. The scale shape of the 34 and 24 is exactly the same, however the 24OTX was left smooth, without the sawcut texture familiar to Old Timer owners since 1958. A special brass shield proclaims the identity “X timer”, and complements the brass scale and spring pins, brass bolsters and liners. The Schrade+ stainless blades, which I first thought to be gunblued, I have since read are titanium nitrate coated, commonly called “tit-nit”. The tang stamp is “SCHRADE+” over “U.S.A. 24OTX”. All together, it is an uncommonly appealing design, and only produced for a short while and for one retail merchandiser, an uncommon Schrade. I believe this will be a sleeper among future collectibles.

[AussieBosun]

So i guess we can safely assume that all Schrade "blued" blades , are in fact titanium nitrate coated , so , after a little googling i have learnt the process is not the same as chrome plating.As i understand it the titanium nitrate coating under takes a process called physical vapour deposition , and goes something like this ,

"Physical Vapor Deposition (PVD) is a process to produce a metal vapor that can be deposited on electrically conductive materials as a thin highly adhered pure metal or alloy coating. The process is carried out in a vacuum chamber at high vacuum (10-6 torr) using a cathodic arc source.

Single or multi-layer coatings can be applied during the same process cycle. Additionally the metal vapor can be reacted with various gases to deposit Oxides, Nitrides, Carbides or Carbonitrides."

PVD coatings are generally used to improve hardness, wear resistance and oxidation resistance.

[koldgold]

Thanks Ivr for that information; I have some of those 24OTX knives that I have not removed from their boxes to look at them.
Do you have an infomation on the 55UH knives, I was told they were also a Wal-Mart special. I also have some of them in un-opend boxes.
I have not looked at most of my late (2000-2004) Schrades. Those other Xtimer blades look like they have a coating like paint on them... KG

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

So i guess we can safely assume that all Schrade "blued" blades , are in fact titanium nitrate coated

I respectfully don't think that's the conclusion we should make. The knives like your DU153 that are described as being "blued" are I believe done differently than the 240TX and it's "tit-nit" coating. I think it's some kind of a liquid blueing process that was used just as in Larry's official description.

This "blueing" treatment showed up on a number of really nice knives such as this big NRA bowie (baron-technology-cutlery-fireaxes-20.jpg, North American Flyways DU bowie and the Pearl Harbor bowie. No doubt, I may have forgotten some others. These knives also had really detailed gold etches. The etches on these knives were done by Baron Technologies for sure. The NRA bowie pic is right off their website. Perhaps Baron did the "blueing" as well because they do all sorts of coatings and polishing as well as etching. I'm going to contact them (today! lol) and see if I can get a final answer on this one.

My first "safe queen" that got me hooked on Schrade collecting is a DU with the same blade treatment and a Baron etch and I love to show it off so folks have seen it before but here it is again for those that haven't:








Stay posted for my Baron update...

[Codger_64]

I agree about jumping to conclusions about the coating processes. Perhaps Eric or Larry can dig up papers that better describe the "blue" used on those. I am guessing it was done by the etch and plate company, either Baron or the other one.

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

It seems that 4:15 on a Friday afternoon is too late to call Baron. I left a message and will stay on top of it next week.

My guess is the same as Codger (whew!) that Baron (or Aurum?) is the most likely source of the "blueing". The time frame is the same for the DU153 and my DU lockback: 2000. I am pretty sure that if Schrade was able to do these blades in-house we would have seen way more patterns given this treatment because, hey, it rocks lol. I also suspect it was quite costly and that's why we didn't see a plethora of blued blades.

I'm thinking that when I talk to Baron we will get some answers seeing as how they showcase the NRA bowie on their site. I'm sure other folks must have asked for the same treatment after seeing that sweet blade.

[AussieBosun]

I admit i may have jumped the gun a bit on assuming all Schrade blued blades were done in the same method - so i revert back to rule number 1 "never assume anything Schrade".The finish and detail on these knives though are top class and highly desirable in my opinion,looking at the gallery from Baron's website really blew me away with some of the pieces that have been created.
Dave,i look forward to your finding's with Baron and appreciate the help,cheer's mate

[ea42]

They actually used two companies, Baron and Tech Etch, although Baron was their primary supplier. Canal Street has had a couple of NRA knives done by Baron as well.

Eric

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

They actually used two companies, Baron and Tech Etch, although Baron was their primary supplier. Canal Street has had a couple of NRA knives done by Baron as well.

Eric

Thanks for the Tech Etch tip, Eric. Some more reading to do...

[ea42]

No problem Dave, I think they were out of Hancock, NY at the time, but I could be wrong on that location.

Eric

[Dave Thinkstoomuch]

Things went well this morning and I was able to speak to a gentleman named Tom Lent who is the Custom Shop Manager at Baron. He was very helpful and familiar with the NRA bowie and other work they did for Schrade back-in-the-day.

Baron did indeed do the bluing as well as the etching. First the blades were mirror polished, then etched, then gold plating added (if applicable), and lastly: blued.

Mr. Lent said it was basic "gun bluing" just as in the official Schrade descriptions. Look up "hot bluing" online to learn how this is done.

One interesting point for me to note was that I first thought of my Baron DU lockback as a black "Bear Paw" LB7 but really it's a black "Cave Bear" 7OT. The blade would be 1095 carbon in order for the bluing to work just as with the DU153. You can blacken stainless blades using a different process but the traditional hot "gun bluing" process only works on carbon steel.

[ea42]

Dave, awesome post, and right you are re. the 1095. It was Tech Etch who did the stainless blades. Got that info from Harold but I'll have to ask Wally for a little more in-depth info. The only Tech Etch I come up with is out of Mass., not sure if that's the same company.

Eric