SAK bash!

[neeman]

Joe,
I have hiked literally thousands of miles
And I will still take a three spring SAK
Cause it is worth its weight in gold

LOL

[Brian Sargent]

I'm at about your pack weight Joe.

I've got a 4" blade knife, hatchet and a Bahco in it too!

My pack, bivy, bag, pad and tarp are around ten pounds.

Alcohol stove, Mors pot, extra socks, jacket and first aid/toiletries are less than three.

Haven't used a filter, matches or sunglasses covers in years.

I use Gatorade bottles.

One thing I'll never give up are baby wipes though!

[Rotte]

Love the scissors for trimming bits of moleskin. Awl is a must for cleaning mud out of tight spots or as an emergency repair...awl. (I like the awls that have a little eye in them so they can be used to drive thread or 550 cord guts through stuff.) Large blade is handy, of course. Those saws work really well for such a tiny tool. And tweezers are a must have. Screwdrivers can come in handy. Man, SAK's just seem endlessly useful, I don't leave the house without one and wouldn't think of going camping without one. SwissBianco's Bushcrafter--with a blade, saw, and awl--seems like a nice minimalist SAK. Defaultuser's custom seems pretty close to ideal.

[sodak]

I'm never without a SAK. I use their money clip, and it has scissors. So I can feel free to carry a Huntsman or Farmer, I'm covered for scissors either way. The awl is perfect for firesteel scraping, and the corkscrew is great for untangling knots, as well as holding a screwdriver for my glasses.

I would be very comfortable carrying ONLY a SAK on the AT...

[WILLIAM.M]

Give me a Farmer with scissors!

Give me the Farmers Daughter


In regards to the knife weight--an SAK weighs so little compared to most everything else you carry backpacking that I feel one should carry one without question.

The model is your call--

[HardTripper]

Dont know if its been said in this thread but the magnifying glass can be a fire starter.

[ThriftyJoe]

I'm at about your pack weight Joe.

I've got a 4" blade knife, hatchet and a Bahco in it too!

My pack, bivy, bag, pad and tarp are around ten pounds.

Back from my short trip to the Rawah Wilderness. Trimmed my sleeping bag weight down a little too much this time. 40 degrees F and a thin liner bag = shivering all night. I was at Rawah Lake, which I think is 11,000 ft, so already cold in August.

I am in awe of your bearable lightness of being.. I don't know how you're getting that extra steel in there and still making that weight.

I could chuck my water filter and save a pound. I could ditch my (security blanket) bear spray and save 9.7 oz. My big PE Nalgene only weighs 5.1 oz. My tent is 2 lb 3 oz. My pad is old school blue foam. I use a homemade alcohol stove too; 3 oz. My flashlight was a Mini Maglite; 3.7 oz. Maybe your extra steel weight = my filter + bear spray?

Aside from those two items, to go any lower, I'm down to rooting out any small plastic containers and replacing them with ziplocs...just ounces or fractions of ounces. I had only spare socks and a thin windbreaker for spare clothes. There was lots of empty space in my pack. Just not that much stuff.

Just did the total. My pack, tent, bag, and pad are just over 9 lb. That's with the thin liner bag though. Maybe good down to 60 F, so summer only. My old synthetic 0 F rated bag is over 4 lb. Definitely I need a down bag.

I have all the Ten Essentials too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_essentials), mostly already mentioned above. Do you have those?

[ThriftyJoe]

Dont know if its been said in this thread but the magnifying glass can be a fire starter.

I was thinking the small magnifier on a SAK was too small to catch enough light to start a fire with. Has anyone ever succeeded in using it for that?

[neeman]

I never weigh my gear
I take what I need and no more
And I know what I need


So what ever it weights, it weighs
Quite a different way of doing

[AeroNautiCal]

Dont know if its been said in this thread but the magnifying glass can be a fire starter.

Rubbish!

I've been trying for the last two hours without so much as a hint of an ember, maybe I'll try again when it gets light...

[ThriftyJoe]

I never weigh my gear
I take what I need and no more
And I know what I need


So what ever it weights, it weighs
Quite a different way of doing

Back in the 1980s, I used to pack my backpack like a suitcase. I would just throw in whatever I thought I might need, and take lots of spares and "what-ifs" too. It's so long ago it's hard to remember, but I'm pretty sure I was taking over 40 lb for a short trip back then.

Now I'm always in the 20's (lbs) and I wish I could go down into the teens. Between trimming my pack weight down and switching to lightweight trail runner sneakers, my backpacking trips are starting to feel more like day hikes. I can really stretch my legs out and eat up the miles, without feeling like a pack mule. Much more enjoyable.

Just as an experiment, next time your pack is completely loaded with water and everything, before you head out, you ought to weigh it. You can use a bathroom scale. Step on with the pack, then step on without and take the difference. It will probably be an eye opener if you're not used to weighing it.

Then on your trip when you're sweating, climbing up a steep slope, think about anything in your pack that weighs a half pound or more, and think about how many times (or if) you are going to use it. We do that all the time for household budgets. "Do I really need this thing? Is it worth it for what it costs?" You can do that for backpacking if you think of weight as a budget.


By the way, if you have no idea how much the small items in your pack weigh, you can get a small postal scale for about $18 online. If I were talking to a brand new backpacker who owned nothing, that might be one of my first purchase suggestions. Kind of counter-intuitive, but if you can get a beginner weight conscious from the start, it won't be such an adjustment for him/her letting go of the heavy stuff later. I know you're not a beginner though.

You know different size people can carry different amounts of weight, based on their fitness level, etc. So this trip I thought of a test. Grab your fully loaded pack in one hand. Don't throw out your shoulder, but try to quickly lift it high over your head with one hand. If you can't do that, or if it's a struggle, you may be carrying too much weight, for a short trip anyway.

Back in the 80s I was carrying so much weight in my pack, even for short trips, I had to do the trick where you pick up the pack and set it on your knee, then swing one strap over a shoulder, then the other one. Now I just pick it up with one hand and throw it over my shoulder like it's nothing.

[collecter]

I've never had a use for awls, corkscrews, hooks, magnifying glasses, nail files, or hook disgorgers in town or on the trail. I described above generally what I think should also be left out for the trail. I'm not sure about pliers on the trail. Maybe.

hiking/backpacking = SAKs? Why?

My favorite blade on the Pioneer/Soldier/Farmer is the awl. The awl opens and is in line with the handle so it can be used like a knife blade. I use it for scraping an drilling holes. It drills very nice holes. It's the only pocket knife that drills/cuts nice holes in wood or plastic.

The awls that form a T on other models are are not nearly as useful imo.

But I have never need pliers so I never really took a liking to multi-tools.

[ThriftyJoe]

@collecter: Yes, people just about have me convinced that the awl is useful for some things on the trail. Somebody here pointed out that it's also good for striking a ferro rod if you use those. I always worried about wrecking the edge on my one knife blade if I ran out of matches and had to use my magnesium fire starter.

Maybe baldtaco-II's suggestion of the SwissBianco Bushcrafter is the best. I did check their newsletter. They're asking $60 + shipping for it now, so I went with the Pioneer Pruner for $24.95 total, and saved a bit of weight too.

I'm trying not to go crazy on bonus equipment for now. I still need to upgrade to an 800 fill down bag to save about three pounds, and that's one of the most expensive items.

Re: weight Check out this gal's equipment list: http://www.trailjournals.com/gear.cfm?trailname=9317
She seems to have just about everything, plus a couple of luxuries like camp shoes and camera, but it's all so light. Almost every item is a few ounces or less. Her total shelter weight for example, is about 12 oz. Note that her knife is a SAK Classic for 0.74 oz. You can see how a multitool-size SAK or a Buck 110 for example, would be a big heavy brick out of place in her pack, compared to the rest of the stuff she's carrying.

That's a pretty sophisticated gear set. I'll bet she's an experienced hiker, with a box at home full of heavier, less practical things that she replaced as she gained experience. (yeah, I have a box like that)

[collecter]

I read many posts on a hikers forum about people who don't even consider a knife a neccessary item. How f'd up is that!!!?

My alox pioneer is without question my most carried and used knife. I have several farmers (think pioneer + wood saw) but I never needed the saw so it's rare that I carry them even in the woods. But a lot of guys swear by the farmer because of he saw.

Honestly, add a bit bigger tool be it a fixed blade, hatchet, hawk, machete, etc., and you would be able to handle just about any task.

[gadgetgeek]

Collecter, You see, we here are all addicts. We are addicted to carrying a knife. It's just who we are, so even if we go a week without using it, it was still "worth while" to our logic, because we might have needed it. To someone who does not use a knife ever (lots of areas are no-trace areas, pre-packed food, and nylon shelters etc) would not see the need to have a "just in case" item. If the worst thing they can foresee is a slightly uncomfortable overnight if their shelter leaks, or they get a minor injury, then why take a knife? if they expect the trail to be full of people who will at the very least make a phone call to the ranger once they get back to the trailhead, what's to worry?
Do I agree with this attitude? no, I don't, but I'm also an addict, so my response is going to be to re-enforce you're attitude, so that you'll re-enforce mine. On a day to day basis I carry between one and three blades (one of which is usually a SAK or at least an MT)

personally I carry a SAK or MT not for what I will use it for, but what I might use it for. if I know I'm going to need a tool, I'll take that tool! It's kinda like the guys who say that a pistol is for fighting your way back to your rifle, a SAK or MT is for fighting your way back to your toolbox. I've used every tool on my huntsman, some not very often, but I have.

To each his own, as they say, but trashing someone who doesn't see the world your way is a bit narrow minded.

One addict to another, stay sharp!

[Groove]

I used my Compact way more than I expected last weekend while off-road motorcycle camping in VT. The blade was used mostly for food prep and package opening, the multi-tool was borrowed to reach an idle-air mixture screw on a carburator, the corkscrew opened a bottle of my Mothers incredible Cabernet/black currant mead blend, and...the biggest surprise was the parcel hook being the perfect retrieval method for the campfire coffee percolator. My Farmer stayed in my backpack *gasp!*

[collecter]

There's no question that we are "addicts". I preordered a knife a few days ago and the knife I plan it to replace has seen only one camping trip.

But I still aim to be practical and limit how much I carry. In my neck of the woods it gets real hot and there are times when I have considered tossing gear to lighten my load. After ever outing I count the items that I didn't use including any blades or tools that I brought.

It's this thinking that brought me to use flashlights and lanterns that only use AAA batteries. My spare batteries consist of 3 AAA batteries were before I had AA's, AAA's and 123's. Simple is better!

[ThriftyJoe]

Unlike some extreme ultralight hikers, I do believe that a knife is important for a backpacking or day hiking trip. It's been on the Ten Essentials list for 80 years. That's good enough for me. I really enjoy selecting a knife from my small collection to take on a hiking trip. I just think you ought to move the goalposts away from larger knives, toward the two ounce range.

Here are some honorable mentions around two ounces that I don't have yet, but that I think would be good choices. Lots of people on BF have them in their collections, but maybe they just don't think of them as hiking knives. If it's small and light enough to be comfortable in your pocket for EDC, it might make a good hiking knife.

Case Peanut (very popular as a lightweight EDC)
Case Mini Copperlock (on my eventual buy list, even though it's redundant with other single blade lockbacks I have)
Buck 303 Cadet (mini stockman)
Buck Duet (heck with the SAK Classic; scissors + 420HC knife blade!)
Buck Solitaire (simple and light 2 7/8" single blade slipjoint)
EKA Compact Folder (single blade Sandvik slipjoint)
EKA Executive (Sandvik blade with stainless handle)
Others?

I think some of those are small and light enough for even a long distance through hiker. It doesn't always have to be a SAK Classic. I would much rather have a Buck Duet on a through hike than a Classic. Also if you're going to be on the trail away from a whetstone for months, I can see the logic in having more than one knife blade, so a small stockman or Peanut makes sense to me too.

The single layer SAKs are nice and light too. There are many that would be suitable for a long distance hikers in addition to the Classic.

[Rotte]

Joe,

I'm not sure a Vic Classic is an actual survival knife or meets the 10 essentials intent. I carry one regularly and they are great for opening packages and Boxes and cutting string, but that's about it.

I admire your light weight approach, the gear list link you posted was interesting. She left out the cordage for the tarp. I like tarps, but with that thin ground pad, light bag, and tarp, we're looking at warm weather sleeping. If the point of the exercise is to walk many miles quickly, then she is set. I like to enjoy the trail and see some sights, so a heavier pack with some field glasses and my Jet Boil jammed in is worthwhile. I've never noticed a 4" bushcraft knife on my belt either.

Once one becomes fanatical about weight, the margins of comfort and safety start getting pressed. Bear spray seems like a worthwhile carry. So does a two or three spring SAK. You won't notice a Tinker or Camper in your pants pocket.

Is that ground sheet she list really necessary? Or durable?

[ThriftyJoe]

Joe,

I'm not sure a Vic Classic is an actual survival knife or meets the 10 essentials intent. I carry one regularly and they are great for opening packages and Boxes and cutting string, but that's about it.

She left out the cordage for the tarp.

Is that ground sheet she list really necessary? Or durable?

Good point about the Classic. I think around 3 1/2 inch closed length is about right for a lightweight hiking knife. I can cut most things with a knife that size. Not chopping or batoning though I think.

I'm assuming she has cord and poles for her tarp. Maybe she uses her trekking poles? Also she has Spectra cord for bear bagging her food.

I'm sure if she's tarp camping she needs the ground sheet. The pad is too small to keep your sleeping bag off the dirt. Since it's down especially, she needs to keep it dry. Imagine if it's been raining, and there is no dry dirt anywhere to set your tarp and sleeping bag.

By the way, I read through her trail journal for the Pacific Crest Trail. She routinely hiked 20-30 miles per day. I don't know her, but she looks like an ordinary girl next door to me. I have read before that after they get conditioned to the trail, through hikers do incredible distances. I did a 14 mile hike recently with an 11 pound pack, and my legs were pretty tired at the end of the day. If you're walking across entire continental US top to bottom, I can see you would want to make some good time to get it done. I can also see how you would start going through every ounce in your pack, chucking out unnecessary stuff, and it would be easy to justify spending hundreds of dollars to shave a few pounds out of your gear if you have to carry it all day, everyday.