SAK bash!

**ThriftyJoe** · 08-04-2012, 07:50 PM

Well, not really. I think the quality is good, but in a recent thread about a knife to take for the AT, lots of people posted that this or that model of Swiss Army Knife was perfect for the trail. When I looked at them, I saw lots of screwdrivers, bottle and can openers, and corkscrews that made no sense to me for the trail.

If you're not carrying glass bottles, steel cans, or machines with screws in your pack, why take such a complicated and heavy SAK? Why not a simple single blade folder from another manufacturer? Maybe a stockman? An EKA for example, has better quality steel than a SAK for about the same amount of money and weight.

There are so many possible tools that could be included on a SAK, and so many different combinations of SAKs you can buy on swissknifeshop.com and other places, I figured there must be a logical way to select which SAK (if any) is right for your application.

So I marked up a loaded-up SwissChamp as a starting point, with X's and checkmarks, based on how useful I thought they would be in the city and on the trail. See if you agree.

In the city:

http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/...rkupintown.jpg

On the trail:

http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/...rkuphiking.jpg

I've never had a use for awls, corkscrews, hooks, magnifying glasses, nail files, or hook disgorgers in town or on the trail. I described above generally what I think should also be left out for the trail. I'm not sure about pliers on the trail. Maybe.

So the perfect SAK for the trail? A simple knife blade-only model like a Solo, Pioneer Pruner, or Secretary if you must have a SAK, and can live without scissors. If you want scissors, you have to either live with the tiny knife blade on a Classic, or get a lot of stuff you don't need on the trail in the larger models. I think a Pioneer Harvester with scissors instead of the bottle opener would be an ideal versatile cutting tool, although a little heavier.

In town, maybe a reasonable do-it-all fix-it model like a Deluxe Tinker. Not really huge, but maybe it has to be carried in a sheath?

What do you think? Are people insisting on tools in their SAKs for hiking that they couldn't possibly use?

hiking/backpacking = SAKs? Why?

**medcommander** · 08-04-2012, 08:03 PM

I understand your point completely! Don't get me wrong I love my SAK and multitools, but most of the time I only use three functions on the knife.

Brilliant Idea: Someone should create a custom building SAK business. Instead of buying models you instead pay a certain price for certain items on the knife. That way we could all have what we needed, and hopefully create a brand new market for SAK.

**Starlight1967** · 08-04-2012, 08:30 PM

I think we can agree to disagree here. Looking at your list of useless implements, I find that the awl is handy as a scraper that saves my blade from blunting. The file is often used to smooth off small repairs to soft metal. As yet, I rarely use the corkscrew, but it's a handy spot for the tiny glasses screwdriver to fit. I often use the scissors, and although the pliers are tiny, they're often useful. In fact, whilst I was a medic, I found a digger who'd gotten covered in kangaroo ticks. Due to the shape, the SAK tweezers did a better job of removing them than the surgical tweezers I carried in my kit.
I do agree that there may be room for a custom SAK manufacturer, although I think it might make it very expensive.

**defaultuser** · 08-04-2012, 08:53 PM

I understand your points; the tools I like to have on the trail is the saw, the scissors, a blade (backup blade of my main fixed blade knife), tweezers, awl, but nothing else ideally. Here's what I had with me on the West Highland Way in Scotland last year:

**ThriftyJoe** · 08-04-2012, 08:59 PM

@defaultuser: That looks pretty close to my Pioneer Harvester + scissors idea. Which model is that? Victorinox or Wenger?

**defaultuser** · 08-04-2012, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by ThriftyJoe

@defaultuser: That looks pretty close to my Pioneer Harvester + scissors idea. Which model is that? Victorinox or Wenger?

Yeah, it's similar except it's only three layers and a Pioneer Harvester with scissors would be 4 layers (plus it would have that pretty much useless bottle opener...well, useless on the trail I mean)

This was a Mod from victorinox parts; vintage Fisherman for scissors layer (sans the "parcel hook"), Camper for the rest of the tools, and custom G10 scales.

**baldtaco-II** · 08-04-2012, 09:31 PM

I think there's a great deal of difference in styles of backpacking / hiking for starters. For many it's simple a head down arse up Brecon shuffle kind of affair with a good portion of the time spent walking a track staring at their feet. I doubt those folks need much of anything, hence my SAK suggestions in your AT thread. Quite apart from that is what I'll be doing next week. Sure I'll be hiking and I'll have a big ole pack, and some parts will be on established trails, but there the similarity ends................Whilst it's folly to be absolute there are some SAK blades I think are crap. I don't consider the magnifying glass as anything more than a toy. And that fish scaler / disgorger thing is the most useless SAK blade I've seen for example, but others have uses that might not be immediately apparent. Take that hook thing; if we overcome functional fixedness and get creative that's a toggle to drag a faggot in bondage, or a means to twist wire or mess with cordage .etc. Similarly, I've used that flat head screwdriver / bottle opener a bunch of times to pry off mussels. My point here is not only are there a bunch of tools with specific jobs in mind but also tools that may be used for other jobs supposing it occurs to the user..........It's that omnivorous potential that makes them great. I know I spend quite a bit of time taking the piss out of the neo-bushcraft silliness but genuine bushcraft is something I have a lot of patience for. X knows how to get his 442 apart and drop in a new tube, fix a binding, perform a bunch of agricultural type skills, and can still peel a rabbit and macrame a makeshift dog lead from stinging nettles. SAKs are fantastic for that if you pick a suitable one. And therein is the puzzle what is suitable. The ones that are probably be for climbing are trumped by my Outrider for my purposes. A bunch of people on this forum seem to like the Farmer but I've never been motivated to own one. The Champ will always hold a sort of goofy boy scout leader bespectacled-virgin type stigma in my mind but I'm sure somebody much smarter than I could get a huge amount of mileage from it............I'm not especially sold on EKA steel being great either. I'd have to be running some very careful testing before I could tell 12C27, a SAK, 425m and Rough Rider's 440A apart. It would be great if an Outrider existed with an addition Wharnie blade in something very wear resistant though. That would be an excellent tool for my next backpacking trip.

**neeman** · 08-04-2012, 10:51 PM

Joe,

For Trail hiking

I carry a three spring Huntsman, and it weights very little
A Champ is over the top

I have done enough long distance backpacking to know about resupply on the trail
You hit a supermarket or 7/11
A can and bottle openers for the beer, luncheon meat, tuna and all sorts of good stuff to break the monotomy of trail food
That is heavy luxury food for the next two days before you go back to trail rations
Unless you are sure you will NEVER need a can or bottle opener.....

A saw for cutting wood into smaller pieces, not the whole way just a half cut then snap the wood
Easy firewood, no heavy chopper or folding saw

Sissors for First Aid for cutting moleskin or gauze for blisters, getting that round cutout for those hot spots
Also the tweezer and toothpick for First Aid

An awl of any repair

A pot lifter, keeps your banadana clean from the grime of the pot

Two blades, one longer one for food and one shorter one for whittling

And the corkscrew
Life cannot go on without carrying a corkscrew
What would happen if you had a bottle of wine and no corkscrew
It does not bear thinking about.......

And I carry a small 3 1/2" Mora scout knife in a leather sheath for my fixed blade
The SAK Huntsman and the Mora Scout are just ounces

**ROCK6** · 08-05-2012, 08:08 AM

There are three models I typically will add to my kit. The venerable Rucksack, the Outrider (same as the Rucksack, but with scissors) and the Farmer. The main thin blade is great for a lot of cutting needs; the saw is excellent for notching or making a hiking stick flush; I personally like the awl and have used it from minor drilling in wood to actually putting an extra hole in the belt for my son. Scissors are just plain handy and I often prefer them. I'm thinking about replacing the can opener and screwdriver can opener on the Farmer with scissors

I must admit that defaultuser's SAK is probably the best of all trail-SAKs I've seen...that should become a standard model!

Originally Posted by defaultuser

I understand your points; the tools I like to have on the trail is the saw, the scissors, a blade (backup blade of my main fixed blade knife), tweezers, awl, but nothing else ideally. Here's what I had with me on the West Highland Way in Scotland last year:

ROCK6

**OwenM** · 08-05-2012, 08:36 AM

Everybody does things their own way, and some carry things others wouldn't, so I can't say what someone else needs. Personally, I agree with the OP, though. For backpacking, nowadays, I usually just carry my EDC stuff-a Delica and Vnox Classic.

Originally Posted by ROCK6

I must admit that defaultuser's SAK is probably the best of all trail-SAKs I've seen...that should become a standard model!

Agree, that's probably the best combo of tools I've seen.
I really like this one that HikingMano posted recently, too:

**ThriftyJoe** · 08-05-2012, 11:51 AM

My order to the Defaultuser Custom SAK Company is on its way!

**Guyon** · 08-05-2012, 06:16 PM

Give me a Farmer with scissors!

**broe** · 08-05-2012, 06:53 PM

The use of the awl is specific but it does come in handy as a drill for bow drills and making snares as well as its normal job of poking holes. I made a leather button to fix a shirt using this and I have a report of a guy getting himself across sheet ice after breaking his leg by using it as an ice pick in his fist. We never really know what we will need, we just hope what we carry is enough for what we need.

**neeman** · 08-06-2012, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Guyon

Give me a Farmer with scissors!

.
My solution is the Huntsman

**6shooter** · 08-06-2012, 12:44 AM

I love my huntsman. Ive never used the hook or the awl. The corkscrew is handy in town for obvious reasons, and useful on the trail for loosening tight knots. I've used the can opener once, the bottle opener never for a bottle, but often as a screwdriver. The second mini blade doesn't see much use, but I like having it for no particular reason. I use the scissors probably as much as the main blade, and the saw is great in the woods. I use the tweezers a lot, and the toothpick never. The saw is obvious for the woods. Being a 3.5" midsize model it carries easy in a pocket.

What's key for me though, is being a 4 layer model, it's pretty thick, and so it's comfy in my hand for any extended use.

I think as far as the perfect minimalist SAK for me, it would be the bushcrafter model above(main blade, saw, awl), but with scissors, and possibly the second small blade if it could be fit. Also, the red plastic scales rather than the alox, so it would have tweezers.

**RatDrall** · 08-06-2012, 05:22 AM

So the perfect SAK for the trail?

1H Trekker... It has freaking locks to hold the blade and saw open! I wouldn't want to be without the screwdrivers, there are things in my pack that use them. I'd hate to break a teklok or something and not be able to remove it :

**pilgrimuk** · 08-06-2012, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Guyon

Give me a Farmer with scissors!

Here you go! Posted this before so apologies in advance.

For me, this is the best selection. The awl is very useful for all sorts of tasks and the can opener and bottle cap/screwdriver are very versatile. As mentioned above, you don't have to use the tools exactly as described, they can be used for scraping, gentle prying etc...

The scissors are useful in the camp kitchen as well as for first aid and minor repairs.

The saw is very capable.

This one recently went to the Amazon on the Esee Jungle survival course and performed flawlessly, got some attention from some of the other guys and someone has already made his own one. The farmer with scissors is one of the most customised SAK designs, so it might be doing something right.

atvb, John