Is this a Barlow? Is it pre- or post- 1902?

[scrteened porch]

Thanks for any help-

I bought this this morning. It was labeled as a Barlow, and there's some resemblance to all the ones I see stamped "Barlow" (and usually "Imperial"). Do the long bolsters make it a Barlow, or is it one at all?

Both blades are stamped WALDEN/ KNIFE Co/ [?] NY. The last line especially is badly worn. Is there a way to tell if it is before or after Walden sold to EC Simmons?

4" long closed, main blade 3/16" thick at tang. Pins and liners are magnetic, not brass or nickel silver.

http://db.tt/kI4wuwGP

Here it is next to an imperial scout knife to show the thickness-

http://db.tt/qz5hHnM2

[bernard_levine]

I looked at your photos, and it appears to be either a bedspread or a table cloth in the first, mattress ticking in the second.

Oh wait... yes! There is a knife hiding on it.

It is a barehead sleeveboard jack.

And with that extra thick spear blade, it is a "stabber jack," a budget version of the folding dirk.

Is it a barlow knife? Sort of...
It is a barehead jack with long bolsters, which kind of define a barlow.
But it is higher grade than most barlows, with ebony handles and a fancy shield.
Of course some knife companies made even fancier barlows with stag, or even pearl.
Russell made some that were sleeveboard shaped, before WWI
Later Utica/Kutmaster barlows are sleeveboard shaped. Made after c1938. Still made, I think.


I can't see the tang stamp.

But I am pretty sure it was made before, during, or after 1902.

If it is marked WALDEN KNIFE CO., it was probably before.
Simmons Hdwe bought Walden then. I don't know if they kept using the Walden Knife Co brand.
They COULD HAVE, since they owned it, but I doubt they did. Depends what their customers wanted to buy.

BRL...

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[scrteened porch]

Thank you, Maestro.

[DJD]

Stabber jack. That's got a nice, nasty ring to it. Like Tom Sawyer gone psycho

DD

[CNoyes]

BRL; Is there a set proportional relationship between the length of the bolsters to the length of the knife that define a barlow pattern?

Most that I've seen have bolsters that are 1/3 the length of the knife.

Just curious, not trying to state a certainty.

[bernard_levine]

BRL; Is there a set proportional relationship between the length of the bolsters to the length of the knife that define a barlow pattern?

Most that I've seen have bolsters that are 1/3 the length of the knife.

Just curious, not trying to state a certainty.

There is certainly no design criterion like that, or any other.



I suppose one could take a natural history approach, that is:


1. Measure a bunch of actual BARLOW knives, that is knives made by members of the Barlow family in Sheffield. Start on these:

* 1816.



2. Measure a bunch of later barlow knives that were marked or advertised as barlows.

1933


Then you would not have to speculate.

BRL...

[CNoyes]

I did use a lower case "b" in the word barlow in my question, as I have had virtually no exposure to original Barlow family knives.

I guess I should have inserted "about" in front of "1/3" in my question, as well.

Measuring your photos on my monitor, there is a wider variation on the original Barlows, but close to a 1/3 to 2/3 relationship on the Russells.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, I was just curious if there was such a ratio that somewhat defined the pattern on modern knives.

Thanks for the informative response and the great pics of the Barlow family knives.

[willgoy]

I like that No. 63 Not seen a Barlow with Sheepfoot before, remarkable.

Amusing that wording in the advert "We could dollie it up for a white-collar knife" The Barlow is the eternal rugged proletarian then! I merely assumed it is a Barehead knife with a noticeably more substantial bolster than other knives.

I seem to recall there was a bit of a hoo-hah some years back when GEC put out their No.25 pattern and called some of them Barlows. Certain types got hot under the collar claiming 3" is too small for a 'real' Barlow and or that the bolster ratio was too long or too short.

[bernard_levine]

That Russell page is part of their post-WWI selection. Also included several larger Daddy Barlows.

Their pre-WWI selection is MUCH more extensive, goes on for pages and pages... and pages. Just of barlows. Plus lots of other patterns.

The smaller 'baby barlow' was a more or less legitimate pattern. I don't recall any US or UK made, only German ones.

BRL...

[WcrownR]

The smaller 'baby barlow' was a more or less legitimate pattern. I don't recall any US or UK made, only German ones.
BRL...

Are the plates for knives, razors and scissors in Smith's 1816 Key in actual size? (I'd be surprised if not.)
If so, in post 6, #327 is exactly 3" and #325 is even shorter.

[caseknife64]

It is strange that all the barlows in the catalog above have arched tang stampings, yet the one I have an example of has a straight line Tang stamp like the first one....

[Ishrub]

It is strange that all the barlows in the catalog above have arched tang stampings, yet the one I have an example of has a straight line Tang stamp like the first one....

I am not providing dating for the stamps just referencing the curved and straight line info in Goins'.

First one pictured in that 1930 catalog (based on ad copy 1875 + 55 - I shouldn't be that trusting) - No 65, is straight line tang stamp. Goins' on page 238 states:
" J. Russell & Co. (curved marking) c 1933-1941 A diamond "R" diamond is stamped under the name on Barlow knives only:This marking was used on 5" daddy barlows made by Russell-Harrington. It was used on regular 3 3/8" barlows also, possibly made for Russell on contract by other manufacturers, but NOT used on 3 3/8" barlows made by Russell-Harrington.

Russell USA (curved) c 1933-1941 "R" and an arrow is stamped under the name.

..... cont
In the 1940's and early 1950's Russell-Harrington repaired knives for members of the Barlow Bearcats, a barlow club formed by a reporter on the Louisville Courier-Journal newspaper. At first old parts were available, but these were soon exhausted. Damaged or missing handles were then replaced with black rubber. New blades were made and marked with a straight line marking (arrow through the R and a line under USSELL). This marking was never used on regular production barlow knives. Any blade that was replaced, regardless of the marking, was stamped "Second" out on the blade."

Later references to curved marks are for the c1974 Schrade Cutlery commemeratives and the c1968-1971 German unauthorized versions.

[caseknife64]

I now notice Bernard put the date 1933 under the catalog, so maybe the 65 above is the old straight line style like mine and this was a transitional year? Both styles are in the catalog.