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Thread: Nutnfancy Reviewed the Sebenza. Hmm...

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by cziv View Post
    Also, he neglected to mention that CRK hardens the lockbar face. He made a big fuss about the ti wearing out on the S35VN. "They need to slap a steel insert in there." Ahh, no they don't.
    Great replies to this thread, but I wanna clarify one thing that you have said a few times.

    6AL4V titanium cannot be hardened by heat-treating.
    Heating titanium can form a thin (a few microns), hard layer of titanium oxides, but it does not change the hardness of the titanium underneath.
    Most knifemakers agree that heating the lockface does help with the stickyness of a titanium liner/frame-lock, but I haven't read that it improves the locks longevity to any useful degree.

    Heat can change the properties of 6AL4V titanium in other ways, but hardness isn't one of them.

    Simply sharing some interesting information I learned on the forums...

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Nullity View Post
    Great replies to this thread, but I wanna clarify one thing that you have said a few times.

    6AL4V titanium cannot be hardened by heat-treating.
    Heating titanium can form a thin (a few microns), hard layer of titanium oxides, but it does not change the hardness of the titanium underneath.
    Most knifemakers agree that heating the lockface does help with the stickyness of a titanium liner/frame-lock, but I haven't read that it improves the locks longevity to any useful degree.

    Heat can change the properties of 6AL4V titanium in other ways, but hardness isn't one of them.

    Simply sharing some interesting information I learned on the forums...
    Im not sure this is right.

  3. #143
    Don't they carbidize it? adding a thin layer of carbides to the lock face, essentially hardening it.
    My personal thoughts on nutnfancy and his loyal tnp'ers (lawl) are too extreme to voice here, but lets just say, don't like.

  4. #144
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    There is a 3 month (sometimes longer) back order for CRKs. The dealers that you see getting knives in placed their order many months ago. Dealer or not, of you placed an order today you'd wait at *least* 3 months to get the knife under normal circumstances.


    Quote Originally Posted by nccole View Post
    3 month back-order? Where did you hear that? Almost every online knife store has them in stock. I visited GP knives in St. Louis and they had at least a dozen in stock. I would also bet a lot of money that CR makes more knives than Bradley does year-to-year, and you could readily get a Sebenza easier than an Alias. Just because Benchmade makes Bradley does not mean much. They are designed in the US, and built in the US using CNC machine equipment. Bradley sets the standards, which are very high. Again, no way anyone can argue the $200 difference. I would guess CR could sell Sebenzas for an even higher price as well. He as such a strong reputation and following he could do it.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by RevDevil View Post
    In the end, Mr. Nutn went into that review not realizing the full extent of what it was that was in his hand. Most evident was the thumbstud and rounded spine monologues. He messed up that review plain and simple by being uninformed, repeatedly contradicting himself, and applying a generic template that cannot really be applied across the board objectively. Is he allowed to make mistakes? Of course! Just don't comeback next time acting as if you've batted 1000 all along with the arrogance to match.I think even you might agree that humility is a good character trait. That's all.
    I'll have to disagree here.

    I've watched TNP videos from the beginning--it's what got me into knives. I started with a Benchmade 960, and just got a new small micarta insingo in today. (Lots in between--many that Nutnfancy would love, many that he would hate.)

    I think Nutnfancy is well informed and speaks from his perspective based on his life experiences. Over the years he has been relatively consistent in what he likes: light weight, high value, good jimping, drop point blades with belly, deep carry pocket clips, etc. And it's very difficult to fault him for having convictions about what he prefers. Obviously, not everyone is going to agree with him, and that's fine...I don't always agree either.

    As for being arrogant, I think he might have had some of that in past videos, but when a notable part of the knife community is attacking him, he does need to stand his ground and make his points clear. Otherwise his videos would be pointless "on one hand, on the other hand."

    Bottom line is that if Nutnfancy didn't deliver value to his viewers, he would have been long gone.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by US-STEEL View Post
    I'm new to CRK's and just placed an order with my Dealer for a Large Computer Generated Graphic Sebenza. I was advised that it will take 3 months to build, I'm guessing that may be because it's a Damascus blade.

    Whether or not the tool (any tool) is justifiably worth the extra money (regardless of how much extra money) can only be accurately measured or determined by the purchaser; everyone else's opinion is irrelevant (mine included).

    A 1/2" open end Snap-On wrench is easily 3+ times more expensive than a Craftsman. The basic design of the Snap-On wrench hasn't changed in years, which indicates no additional R&D expenses went into that product, etc...do the tighter tolerances, simple smooth design and beauty of the Snap-On wrench, justify costing 3 time that of the Craftsman wrench? Not to most who just want a quality performance tool, but you can bet it does to those who buy it.

    Perhaps no need to re-engineer a perfect or near perfect product, especially if you're already producing the product that folks want. It's important to be mindful of the fact that most small businesses struggle to survive; and their product may not always be in demand (hint - firearms). So, when they are in demand, it's in the manufacturer's best interest to capitalize on its popularity; as the tide could change tomorrow, signaling that's it time to struggle again.

    Snap-On vs. Craftsman is a better comparison, thanks. Good points.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by nullface View Post
    Im not sure this is right.
    I am interested in seeing any reputable sources that say (6AL4v) titanium can be through-hardened.


    Quote Originally Posted by videl View Post
    Don't they carbidize it? adding a thin layer of carbides to the lock face, essentially hardening it.
    CRK does not carbidize their locks.
    Mr. Reeve did create the RIL, and I trust CRK's abilities to make a long lasting and properly functioning lock without using carbidizing or steel inserts.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Nullity View Post
    Great replies to this thread, but I wanna clarify one thing that you have said a few times.

    6AL4V titanium cannot be hardened by heat-treating.
    Heating titanium can form a thin (a few microns), hard layer of titanium oxides, but it does not change the hardness of the titanium underneath.
    Most knifemakers agree that heating the lockface does help with the stickyness of a titanium liner/frame-lock, but I haven't read that it improves the locks longevity to any useful degree.

    Heat can change the properties of 6AL4V titanium in other ways, but hardness isn't one of them.

    Simply sharing some interesting information I learned on the forums...
    I don't think I said that he heat treats the lock face but he uses a process that does it. Carburizing or something? I dunno, but my Sebenzas all have the tell tale treatment mark. Carbidizing doesn't heat treat the titanium but it adds a hard layer. CRK uses a method that doesn't "add" but still hardens.

    Just saying.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by experimentjon View Post
    I'll have to disagree here.

    I've watched TNP videos from the beginning--it's what got me into knives. I started with a Benchmade 960, and just got a new small micarta insingo in today. (Lots in between--many that Nutnfancy would love, many that he would hate.)

    I think Nutnfancy is well informed and speaks from his perspective based on his life experiences. Over the years he has been relatively consistent in what he likes: light weight, high value, good jimping, drop point blades with belly, deep carry pocket clips, etc. And it's very difficult to fault him for having convictions about what he prefers. Obviously, not everyone is going to agree with him, and that's fine...I don't always agree either.

    As for being arrogant, I think he might have had some of that in past videos, but when a notable part of the knife community is attacking him, he does need to stand his ground and make his points clear. Otherwise his videos would be pointless "on one hand, on the other hand."

    Bottom line is that if Nutnfancy didn't deliver value to his viewers, he would have been long gone.
    That's all good. I just find it really hard to take serious advice from someone that considers the SOG Flash 1, one of the best EDC knives ever made. If you like the videos, feel he provides sound advice, and it works for you in the end, that is all that matters I guess..

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by RevDevil View Post
    That's all good. I just find it really hard to take serious advice from someone that considers the SOG Flash 1, one of the best EDC knives ever made. If you like the videos, feel he provides sound advice, and it works for you in the end, that is all that matters I guess..
    When I watched his video on that SOG Flash 1 & 2 (arrrgh) - I scored one of each from an online vendor. I eagerly awaited my new "Awesome Blade Dudes" edc & larger tactical brother.

    I opened the box and neither one would flip open all the way, had blade play in all directions. I knew "I was had" and printed out their return label and have tried not to think about it since....lol

    I have to commend his thumb's up on the BM 940 Osborne. I bought that next and still have that bad little mammer jammer.

    Sometimes he's right on for me and others - way off. I search or post here now before thinking about a purchase. Best advice you'll get - it's free too!

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonTideShooter View Post
    There is a 3 month (sometimes longer) back order for CRKs. The dealers that you see getting knives in placed their order many months ago. Dealer or not, of you placed an order today you'd wait at *least* 3 months to get the knife under normal circumstances.
    I guess if you are ordering a very specific combination of inlays, or Damascus etc. you will have a wait. A lot of places do have some of those more unique combinations in stock as well, but I understand wanting to have that one awesome combination. That is very cool that you can do that by the way, I fully understand paying a premium for that over a regular Sebenza, I just think the starting price of the regular Sebenza is inflated a bit. My point was you can go on many sites and pick up a regular Sebenza 24/7/365.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by nccole View Post
    I guess if you are ordering a very specific combination of inlays, or Damascus etc. you will have a wait. A lot of places do have some of those more unique combinations in stock as well, but I understand wanting to have that one awesome combination. That is very cool that you can do that by the way, I fully understand paying a premium for that over a regular Sebenza, I just think the starting price of the regular Sebenza is inflated a bit. My point was you can go on many sites and pick up a regular Sebenza 24/7/365.
    He must have made a mistake. I just checked availability on my favorite Sebenza the large micarta inlay and they're in stock at some dealers that keep their inventory updated.

    And yes, they are very high now, and this last generous price increase was very hard to swallow. I forget what it was but i was quite a chunk of change! $30 increase last year if I'm not mistaken.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nullity View Post
    Great replies to this thread, but I wanna clarify one thing that you have said a few times.

    6AL4V titanium cannot be hardened by heat-treating.
    Heating titanium can form a thin (a few microns), hard layer of titanium oxides, but it does not change the hardness of the titanium underneath.
    Most knifemakers agree that heating the lockface does help with the stickyness of a titanium liner/frame-lock, but I haven't read that it improves the locks longevity to any useful degree.

    Heat can change the properties of 6AL4V titanium in other ways, but hardness isn't one of them.

    Simply sharing some interesting information I learned on the forums...
    you are correct, the titanium itself cannot be hardened but the oxide layer that developes through heating is harder than the TI. The oxide layer can flake off and isn't the most durable thing in the world. Carbidizing is much more efficient way to harden a lock face

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by kawr View Post
    Kershaw currently makes knives for Bradley now. It used to be Benchmade like you said. Bradley just sources out all its production to Kershaw so what a terrible comparison to CRK. CRK is a small company and extremely limited in production just like other mid tech companies like Strider.
    Are you sure? So Kershaw is making the Alias and Mayhem? What about the Bradley autos manufactured by Protech?

  15. #155
    I see that lots of people take Nutnfancy a little to serious. All he is doing is offering his opinion up for free. Take it or leave it, no big deal.

    I have found over time that people will buy a knife and go watch video's about the knife and one of the following will happen:

    If the reviewer says bad things about that knife (basically saying that you have made a bad choice) well that pisses people off and well they must be taken down a notch, trolled, called an idiot.

    If the reviewer says that the knife is awesome (basically stroking the purchaser's ego and his/her genius knife intuitions) well then that person is just freaking awesome.


    I think people should just get what they like and not give 2 $hits what somebody on youtube thinks about it.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by nccole View Post
    I guess if you are ordering a very specific combination of inlays, or Damascus etc. you will have a wait. A lot of places do have some of those more unique combinations in stock as well, but I understand wanting to have that one awesome combination. That is very cool that you can do that by the way, I fully understand paying a premium for that over a regular Sebenza, I just think the starting price of the regular Sebenza is inflated a bit. My point was you can go on many sites and pick up a regular Sebenza 24/7/365.
    Nope, a plain old large 21 is still a wait. They are 3 months behind on everything. You're not going to jump in front of the line just because you want a plain 21. They are just that sought after right now.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cziv View Post
    He must have made a mistake. I just checked availability on my favorite Sebenza the large micarta inlay and they're in stock at some dealers that keep their inventory updated.

    And yes, they are very high now, and this last generous price increase was very hard to swallow. I forget what it was but i was quite a chunk of change! $30 increase last year if I'm not mistaken.
    Dealers will continue to get knives in, but that's because they ordered those knives months ago. They aren't ordering a large micarta and then getting them next week. My local shop (which is one of the largest CRK dealers in the US) still has to wait a few months like everyone else. I reckon that's a fair way to do it.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonTideShooter View Post
    Nope, a plain old large 21 is still a wait. They are 3 months behind on everything. You're not going to jump in front of the line just because you want a plain 21. They are just that sought after right now.
    The fact is the market is saturated with them. Again, if you want a very specific or special one, yes you will wait but anyone doing a semi-custom will have that problem. They would be stupid to stock specials, esp. considering all the combinations they have. In two minutes I loaded up five websites I know and found many many Sebenzas in all different varieties, plus the Umnum, Mnandi, fixed blades, and Ti lock a little more sparse. All you have proven is that CR is open and making knives and has pending orders. There is nothing special about that, almost all knife companies are making knives to fill orders and are behind with plenty of work to do. You are proving my point more, he is charging a premium because he can. If his orders dropped off, he may consider lowering his prices. You cannot justify his price by simply taking purchased parts (maybe they have none), raw material, labor, machine costs, overhead, R&D, and any other costs that go into making the knives plus a reasonable profit margin. I do not blame him, I would be doing the exact same thing if I could, get it while it is good, but people turn a blind eye to the facts and say "well his tolerances are tighter" and try to justify their purchase. The guys who say, I want it, I will gladly turn the money over to that company and it is worth it to me makes sense. If I had several thousand dollars to spend on knives, I could buy several right now and have them in a few days. If that was not the case, you would have second-hand market prices much like Hinderer second-hand knives right now. And that is a totally different thread!

  19. #159
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    I may be wrong. Not comparing companies at all. Is it just me or is Kershaw always behind on schedule? Seems there is always a delay in a new release. Not a rip. More of an answered question. I think you are both right though. Lot's of CRK's to be bought from many dealers. Yet everyone has had to wait to get them. Same with other semi-customs also. Cannot find a Strider SNG CC stonewashed anywhere. Oooh

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by nccole View Post
    3 month back-order? Where did you hear that? Almost every online knife store has them in stock.
    If you order directly from (reguardless which variation) CRK they are usually back ordered. Yes you can find Sebenza in stock at various websites. That still does not mean CRK isn't back ordered.

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