Some old tactics....

[numbersman]

I was just reflecting on the first time I started taking an interest in the martial arts, and it occurred to me that there are a few techniques that seem to have fallen by the wayside. Firstly, the old edge of the foot kick, where you kick sideways across your body and contact the opponent with the edge of your foot. The second technique, is the centre knuckle punch, in which you extend one knuckle and and punch the opponent. I have my own thoughts on why this might be so, but how about your thoughts? Let us know what you think of these techniques, give some positives and negatives and let us know what your judgement is.

[Dr Heelhook]

You mean a regular side kick? I think side kicks may have been slightly disregarded because it's not exactly a solid knockout kick like the roundhouse. I think the side and front kicks are mostly seen as push kicks, since it's hard to end a fight with them unless you're very accurate. Mixed Martial Arts and fighting sports probably have contributed to this. In full contact sport fighting, you usually have a frontal stance towards your opponent, since that makes it easier to throw hard blows with your fists. In that stance a front kick is usually faster and more practical than a side kick, because it's thrown forwards. A sideways stance is good, because it's easier to protect your groin from kicks in that stance. This is one of the reasons why for an example Bruce Lee preferred this stance and also was famous for his side kicks, but since groin kicks usually aren't allowed in competition today, many people prefer a frontal stance to throw heavy boxing style punches and combinations instead. Concerning using the edge of the foot as a point of impact with the side kick, I think this is not stressed as much because the main target for that kind of kick is the throat (which is illegal in competition). Many people prefer to connect with the heel instead while side kicking to the body, since the heel is considered a harder and sturdier part of the foot.

With that middle knuckle punch I think it's much the same issue there. It's not a punch which is intended for pile driving impact power, but for very accurate strikes to very sensitive points on the body, which isn't considered quite as practical in a stressed situation, neither by full contact competition fighters nor by the newer generation of instructors of "real world" practical self defense.

[CWL]

Nothing wrong with a side kick, you just have to be fast enough to deliver it without getting your foot caught. I think it is useful for delivering fast strikes at below waist level to keep an opponent at a distance and to cause injury to his/her knees & legs. A version is useful (particularly for women & hard soled shoes) to bring the edge of your foot down the shin of an attacker, like a stomp. If delivered correctly, you should be able to cause intense pain and slow the BG down enough for follow-ups or escape.

Center knuckle would be useless for real SD. If you can connect, connect with the entire fist. No time or room for fancy stuff during an attack.

[HeavyHanded]

I was just reflecting on the first time I started taking an interest in the martial arts, and it occurred to me that there are a few techniques that seem to have fallen by the wayside. Firstly, the old edge of the foot kick, where you kick sideways across your body and contact the opponent with the edge of your foot. The second technique, is the centre knuckle punch, in which you extend one knuckle and and punch the opponent. I have my own thoughts on why this might be so, but how about your thoughts? Let us know what you think of these techniques, give some positives and negatives and let us know what your judgement is.

Not sure from the kick description, but sounds like a side snap off the back leg. Even a side snap off the lead leg is more of a harassment/sparring type of kick - not a lot of power but doesn't force you to commit either - good for getting someone to drop their hands maybe...I think it declined in popularity as point sparring diminished in popularity.

The knuckle punch is still useful, but you wont find many practicing it because as the Dr says, its a specialty shot - good for the temple, neck/throat and not a whole lot else. A glancing blow with one of these to the temple hurts like a SOB.

[Dr Heelhook]

Bruce Lee used the lead side kick to the lead knee/shin of the opponent because it's the fastest technique available, which you can hit the opponent with from as far away as possible. It is also like CWL said good for controlling the distance to your opponent and breaking down his posture, setting him up for follow ups, much like a jab with the legs. It's rarely seen in MMA for some reason, people often prefer to use round house kicks to the legs, but recently some fighters have utilized it with pretty good results, such as Jon Jones and Anderson Silva.

I really like when people are bringing more finesse into the MMA game, instead of the old low browed Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai routine.

[Dago Red]

Years ago when I did train (20 years?) the blackbelt that owned the dojo I went to was Robert Halliburton. A tall lanky texan, he was a surgeon with side kicks and his had tons of power. I think that it is a fighting style thing, as one person stated some people fight from a side facing stance, most prefer to fight face on. also popularity of certain types of competitions and certain styles has probably influenced overall.

I don't remember ever training with the single knuckle strikes, they were for more advanced than me probably. But I read a lot, and have some great books (if they aren't lost over the years). One of which was the biography of Gichin Funakoshi (father of modern Karate who took it from Okinawa to Japan and first taught large groups). It's been many years since I read it but there was a story in there where a swordsman (don't remember if he was a "samurai) asked one of Funakoshi's masters (he had the rare and fortunate opportunity to train under more than one and related stories about each in his book) about that single knuckle strike. IIRC he had the swordsman attack him, he slipped inside his swing and stopped a single knuckle punch a hairsbreadth from his sternum. Would have been a killing blow if he'd struck.

So even originally it was a very specialized strike.

On a side note, for those of you inclined to play with it, I always preferred the first knuckle, I think it actually is stronger than the middle. make your fist, extend the first knuckle out, and then brace the thumb in the crux. I feel it has more support than using the middle knuckle. your mileage may vary.

Red

[HeavyHanded]

I may be thinking of a different kick than some of the other responses. If we're talking side kick utilizing a stomping energy, then I still practice these and use them sparring frequently (tho I no longer use them jumping or spinning ). They work very well with some footwork to disguise the chambering - usually no more than a side step. I also work on the stomp described by CWL.

From the description given by numbersman I thought he was describing a snap kick - more of a loose pop that launches from the knee and has more of a round kick energy to it yet lands with a bladed outstep. The latter I don't even practice anymore but can still crank off with good form. These days I usually just practice my MT kicks. The only "traditional" ones I still use are the side thrust and stomp kick, which is a real favorite of mine.

Side note, I remember some other good targets for the middle knuckle punch - kidneys, and floating ribs. It hurts even if its more of a hit and grind instead of a sharp impact, tho still pretty impractical for most mortals.

[mwerner]

Back before I became old an creaky, I had a very fast and snappy lead side kick. Coupled with Lee's sliding-forward approach, this is a powerful technique and very damaging delivered in the low line.
It can also be used as a "stop hit" to disrupt an opponent's attack.

I remember back when I was a lad in the late 50s studying "karate" out of Bruce Tegner books... He showed dozens of different hand positions and striking techniques, including the extended-knuckle punch.
Seemed like an excellent way to hurt yourself... Perhaps folks with stout fingers and hands who were willing to spend long hours whacking makiwara could use it effectively... But I always fancied being able to tie my shoes in old age.

[WindyCityKali]

The problem with a side kick is that it's sorta easy to grab. You see it coming, it comes right straight for you and it doesn't have the force behind it like a Thai kick. I use it, but only when I'm trying to jam it up under his lead hand into the lower belly. But once you add take-downs, the side kick is a little risky.

I don't know anyone that trains that punch you were talking about - but I"ve seen it written about in books and magazines form the 70's and 80's.

[will_1400]

The problem with a side kick is that it's sorta easy to grab. You see it coming, it comes right straight for you and it doesn't have the force behind it like a Thai kick. I use it, but only when I'm trying to jam it up under his lead hand into the lower belly. But once you add take-downs, the side kick is a little risky.

I don't know anyone that trains that punch you were talking about - but I"ve seen it written about in books and magazines form the 70's and 80's.

I can see a roundhouse kick coming with more time to counter than a side kick. The side kick is a useful tool in many respects. In combat sports, I can see it not being common since few attacks will come from the side, but it can be effective provided the fighter knows what he or she is doing.

As for "one knuckle" punches, I actually do use a variant of it where I extend my index finger's knuckle with my thumb planted as an anchor/reinforcement point to keep my fist from collapsing and causing injury. I also don't target hard bony structures like the head with it and do enough makiwara to know that I can use it if I choose to, but it's very situational tool.

[will_1400]

Center knuckle would be useless for real SD. If you can connect, connect with the entire fist. No time or room for fancy stuff during an attack.

Connecting with the "entire" fist is a good way to get broken fingers in a street fight. All too often, I see people who advocate "use the whole fist" connect with the backs of their fingers instead of the knuckles and then wonder why they have a broken hand afterward.

[Dr Heelhook]

Back before I became old an creaky, I had a very fast and snappy lead side kick. Coupled with Lee's sliding-forward approach, this is a powerful technique and very damaging delivered in the low line.
It can also be used as a "stop hit" to disrupt an opponent's attack.

I remember back when I was a lad in the late 50s studying "karate" out of Bruce Tegner books... He showed dozens of different hand positions and striking techniques, including the extended-knuckle punch.
Seemed like an excellent way to hurt yourself... Perhaps folks with stout fingers and hands who were willing to spend long hours whacking makiwara could use it effectively... But I always fancied being able to tie my shoes in old age.

The most effective single knuckle punch IMO is the thumb knuckle hook. You clench your fist and brace the tip of your thumb against the side of your index finger, letting the first knuckle of your thumb protrude. If only used for body shots, like inbetween the ribs or to the tip of the sternum, it shouldn't be too hard on your knuckles.

[numbersman]

Some great responses here! Well done guys. I have to agree with Dr Heelhook (?), that a stomping type kick generates more power and requires less control of the fine motor skills, which may be gone to hell in a SHTF scenario.

[sherlockbonez]

I had landed an unintentional middle knuckle punch on someone once while I was younger. Ended with a broken middle knuckle and now my middle finger only extends 3/4 way up.

[Daniel L]

The side kick the OP described I remember fondly from Mas Oyama's "Essential Karate" - its the outer side edge of the foot being rather than the heel. I'm a fan of the side kick, and its a good one to know for when attacked on the side / multiple opponents. Great for low leg / shin attacks but in modern life I wear shoes and I'll use by heel as the impact point.

Middle / single knuckle - I don't use it for punching, but its great for manipulating your opponents head in (non sport) groundfighting, to set up for chokes and distraction. Just drill the knuckle really quickly into the cheek, behing the jaw hinge - even the side of the skull. Most people will turn their head. I do prefer the first knuckle reinforced with the thumb too.

I love the thumb knuckle - also described in Mas Oyama's book - but I have to admit never using it, except for playing around on the BOB dummy for neck strikes.

[Insipid Moniker]

Connecting with the "entire" fist is a good way to get broken fingers in a street fight. All too often, I see people who advocate "use the whole fist" connect with the backs of their fingers instead of the knuckles and then wonder why they have a broken hand afterward.

From a physiology perspective, punching in general is a good way to break your hand. There are some things that may reduce the risk, but you're pitting small, relatively fragile, meta-carpals and carpals against much larger, stronger bones. Hence the term boxer's fracture.

[mwerner]

Yep, hitting folks in the head or face with one's fist is generally a mutually-damaging affair. I don't know how many assaults I've handled where the punch-ee had to get sutures as well as the punch-ed.
Teeth are especially nasty.
Best to use the palm-heel or hammer-fist.

[will_1400]

From a physiology perspective, punching in general is a good way to break your hand. There are some things that may reduce the risk, but you're pitting small, relatively fragile, meta-carpals and carpals against much larger, stronger bones. Hence the term boxer's fracture.

There is some truth to this. However, a properly executed punch backed by a hand that's conditioned to deliver a heavy impact (think makiwara training) is one hell of a weapon. Also, nearly every boxer I know doesn't spend any time conditioning their hands/knuckles; they can generate an amazing amount of power, but often times their wrist will buckle and their knuckles aren't dense enough to withstand the stress of conveying that power into their target.

[will_1400]

Yep, hitting folks in the head or face with one's fist is generally a mutually-damaging affair. I don't know how many assaults I've handled where the punch-ee had to get sutures as well as the punch-ed.
Teeth are especially nasty.
Best to use the palm-heel or hammer-fist.

Palm heels and hammer fists are great weapons, especially for people who haven't taken the time to learn how to throw a good punch. And my solution to the issue of teeth is pretty simple. I don't strike at the mouth; instead I'll go for the temple, the hinge of the jaw, etc, or just focus on delivering body blows since the head is a small and evasive target compared to the torso.

[SeaxyBeast]

Hammer fist is a good 'bridge' technique between knife and empty hand if you do any training in reverse grip with shorter blades. Most of the targets even remain consistent between the two. Plus, if you happen to lose your grip on the blade in the middle of things you can continue to flow without getting flustered and freezing up.