How many of you retain legal council?

[Charlie Mike]

As in having a criminal defense attorney on retainer.

[powernoodle]

A retainer is when you pay a lawyer a sum of money in anticipation of using legal services. For example, a person might pay an attorney $1000, and then as legal services are rendered, payment is made from the retainer. Retainers are used when you know you are going to incur legal fees. You are just paying up front, instead of getting billed after the fact. Unused retainer fees are refunded to the client.

I don't see the need for anyone to retain a criminal defense lawyer unless he is charged or about to be charged with a crime, or is under investigation or indictment, etc. For the average guy who is not charged or about to be charged with a criminal offense, there really is no need for a retainer and I'm not sure that a criminal defense lawyer would accept a retainer when no legal services are anticipated. It would be like paying an orthopedic doc a retainer, just in case you need to have a broken arm fixed someday. Instead, you just find and pay the orthopedic doc if you ever need him.

If by retainer you mean having a criminal defense lawyer lined up "just in case", having his business card in your wallet or knowing who you will call if you take a ride to the cop shop, there is nothing wrong with that. But anyone who is arrested will have ample opportunity to find and retain counsel.

There are pre-paid legal services scenarios, where you pay a monthly fee and then receive XYZ legal services if you need them. I'm not really a fan of that.

More important, I think, is to pre-plan what you will say and what you will do in the event of a police investigation or arrest. Unlike finding a lawyer, which can be done subsequent to arrest, how you respond during the course of an investigation or arrest requires forethought. Knowing what to say and what not to say, and how to behave. Just my view.

[Gollnick]

On a formal retainer? No. Most attorneys don't like to have a lot of inactive retainers; it's just extra accounting for them.

Business card handy? Yes.

[Gollnick]

There are pre-paid legal services scenarios, where you pay a monthly fee and then receive XYZ legal services if you need them. I'm not really a fan of that.

As far as I have seen, those don't have much coverage for criminal situations. They often provide for representation at an initial arraignment, but an initial arraignment is usually about five minutes long and quite prefunctory. Beyond that, things get messy in a criminal case and nobody is going to sell that on a price fixe basis.

[CWL]

Tax, corporate, employment, civil litigation? Yes.

Criminal? No need. You only retain criminal representation if you are a criminal.

Having an attorney on retainer means that you have pre-paid fro his/her services. Why would you need to pay a criminal atty or firm by retainer?

[killgar]

I've had a few different criminal attorneys. During a criminal proceeding I was involved in I hired a criminal law firm and met with four different attorneys. That firm turned out to be a bunch of crooks who screwed me over. My next lawyer was a good one. He knows that I was innocent and how badly I got screwed (both by the system and by my lawyers) and we formed a friendship. I'm sure this would not have happened if he thought for a second that I was guilty. From time to time I ask him questions on legal matters but he doesn't charge me for such little things. Of course I don't abuse his generosity.

[killgar]

Criminal? No need. You only retain criminal representation if you are a criminal.

Believe it or not, but not everyone who is arrested and charged with a crime is a criminal. You know who REALLY needs a criminal attorney, innocent people who are wrongly arrested and unjustly charged with crimes that they didn't commit.

[Bigfattyt]

There is also another reason to have a retainer with a criminal defense attorney.

Preferential treatment. You can pay a retainer to hold the attorney's services. A retainer can make sure that if the crap hits the fan, the attorney will take your case, and not be too busy. In bigger cases you can hold their services to the exclusion of others. You can expect him/her to make room in the schedule four your case (not taking other cases that might preempt or tie the attorney's time up).

[CWL]

I will repeat, you would only need pre-paid criminal defense representation, if you were a criminal and expecting to be arrested and charged.

Any other instances where you might be accused of criminal acts, you will have time to find and hire, or ask the courts to appoint you with representation.

powernoodle sums it up in #2 pretty well.

[killgar]

Any other instances where you might be accused of criminal acts, you will have time to find and hire, or ask the courts to appoint you with representation.

I was questioned during the investigation of a crime. This questioning was very casual and took place over the phone. I was never asked for an alibi, the detective was very friendly and made it sound as if he was just trying to just rule me out as a suspect and following standard procedure. I wasn't officially accused of anything, I wasn't under arrest, I wasn't charged. But I'd seen enough cop shows to get suspicious and it spooked me a bit. So I hired a criminal law firm to advise and represent me. Even without being officially accused, arrested, or charged, there are many things a criminal defense attorney can do to try and protect you or prepare in advance for actuall criminal charges. And by the way, I was eventually arrested and charged.

Sometimes if a person waits until they are actually under arrest before consulting with an attorney, it will be too late and the arrestee can find themselves in deep sh*t, even if they are innocent.

Treacherous are the ways of the criminal justice system. If they've got you in their sights, you're gonna need all the help and advice you can get.

[CWL]

I have no doubt about your experiences. But in #6, how would having pre-paid criminal defense representation have prevented your experiences with the first law firm?

You are talking about having the need/deserving good and honest legal representation, everyone needs that, and it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's question.

[killgar]

I have no doubt about your experiences. But in #6, how would having pre-paid criminal defense representation have prevented your experiences with the first law firm?

You are talking about having the need/deserving good and honest legal representation, everyone needs that, and it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's question.

Well, my case is a rather twisted one, especially considering I was innocent. It would be impossible for me to tell the whole story here.

As it turned out, the firm I hired was crooked (truly, they wound up closing and faced multiple investigations for wrongdoing). The fact that they were crooked kinda makes them a moot point.

Two months prior to my arrest a search warrant was issued against me. As it turned out, the lead detective COMMITTED PERJURY in order to obtain that warrant. My crooked lawyer never even noticed or bothered to check such things. Items collected as a result of that warrant were used to obtain an arrest warrant. If a good lawyer had discovered that the search warrant was obtained ILLEGALLY, it's possible that they might have gotten the search warrant thrown out, the items obtained from the search warrant would have been inadmissible, and criminal charges would never have been filed.

As for the value of retaining a criminal attorney, I can tell you this- No innocent person ever expects to be arrested or charged with a crime. You certainly don't expect to be TARGETED and framed by a crooked detective, I certainly didn't. But such things do happen. And when they happen you find yourself in a nightmare like you can't imagine. Like Bigfattyt explained, there are definite advantages to retaining counsel. Though it is unlikely that most people will find themselves unjustly targeted by the criminal justice system, I garuntee that if you are, you'll wish that you had the best lawyer around all read to jump to your defense. Having to wait until you can bail out before finding an attorney, and having to settle for whatever lawyers are available, might leave you with less than ideal representation.

Naturally not everyone can afford to keep a lawyer on retainer. But knowing what I know about the criminal justice system, learning the hard way, if I were rich I would definitely keep one of the best criminal lawyers around on retainer. You just never know when you might need one.

[powernoodle]

I have yet to hear of a single example, here or elsewhere, where any person faced hardship or was otherwise harmed by failing to retain a criminal defense lawyer prior to the initiation of an investigation, arrest or indictment. Going back to my orthopedic doc scenario, it would be as if someone claimed that its wise to retain a bone doctor just in case they broke their arm someday, because you never know if all of the good bone docs are going to be too busy when the time comes.

I've never heard of anyone retaining a criminal lawyer without either being involved in crime or having some rational basis for anticipating an arrest. Thats not to say its never happened.

I would imagine the conversation going something like this:

Criminal lawyer: can I help you?
dude: yeah, I need to give you $1000 in anticipation of you rendering services to me.
Criminal lawyer: sure; so when were you arrested?
dude: never
Criminal lawyer: fine; so when were you indicted?
dude: never
Criminal lawyer: hmm; so you are engaging in criminal activity then, right?
dude: I've never broken the law.
Criminal lawyer: so why do you want to give me money in anticipation of me rendering services?
dude: just in case.
Criminal lawyer: so instead of paying me now, for no good reason, why not just stick my business card in your wallet and call me at the first sign of trouble? My answering service can get ahold of me 24/7.
dude: thats what the stupid orthopedic doctor said too when I tried to give him money. Whats wrong with you people?

[Dago Red]

You expecting trouble? PM me I'll give you name of one here in town for criminal stuff. The wrong criminal attorney can do more harm than good, they are not all created equal.

Red

[Charlie Mike]

No reason yet, Red Dog. Been watching too much Breaking Bad.

[Brimstone]

No, but I have an attorney that specializes in firearms related cases in my contacts on my phone as he is the one I would most likely need to speak with quickly.

[Uath]

I have rental property and a large tree farm (720 acres). I'm always having to renegotiate a rental contract, fight tax increases (usually if you pay an attorney to fight a tax increase, he actually pays for himself. It's usually worth it) I've used the same attorney for years. He knows me. I feel SURE that if I ever get arrested, or accused, I can call on him and he'll be right there.

MOSTLY because he knows I can afford to pay him. That's the way it is with all attorneys.

[Gollnick]

I have rental property and a large tree farm (720 acres). I'm always having to renegotiate a rental contract, fight tax increases (usually if you pay an attorney to fight a tax increase, he actually pays for himself. It's usually worth it) I've used the same attorney for years. He knows me. I feel SURE that if I ever get arrested, or accused, I can call on him and he'll be right there

Don't feel it. Ask him. Now.

In most states, criminal defense is a specialty and lawyers are not allowed to practice it unless they have passed the specific bar exam for it. Here in Oregon, if you called your business attorney up and said, "I've just been arrested," he would put you on hold until he could dig up the Bar Association-approved script about remaining silent and not consenting to searches and so forth, read that to you (if he sticks to the script, he's not in professional danger) and then refer you to a friend of his who is a CDA, Criminal Defense Attorney.

[Gollnick]

Keep in mind that there is a lot more to effective criminal defense than the law. You have to know the local courts, their esoteric policies and procedures. You have to know the local judges. It helps to know if the clerk of the court prefers light or dark chocolates. You need the best local PIs with local street knowledge, and they only work for the best local CDAs because they know who butters their bread. And you need a CDA who knows how to pick a jury in the community in question. So, you need to hire a CDA who is local to the court you will tried in. You need a local guy. So retaining an attorney before you know what court you'll be in is not a good idea.

How do you find him? You ask a cop. You ask a local cop who he would hire if he was accused of a crime. You ask a local cop which CDA he most fears being cross-examined by. That's your guy.

[Shann]

Gollnick makes some very good points. Also, a local defense lawyer will know which prosecutors really want to try cases, which ones will cave, and even what is a good deal or not. For example, I've been practicing law for almost 20 years and could try the case, but if the prosecutor made me an offer, I wouldn't have the slightest idea if it was a deal that my client should jump on or reject, given the local practices.

Even in States that do board certify specialties, that doesn't mean that they have to be certified in a specialty to practice law in that area. Maybe that's different in some states, but usually the certification only gives them the right to hold themselves out as a board certified specialist.