Shun knife block set or mixed individual knives as a Gift?

[Katalyst]

Hi,

I am looking to buy either a Shun knife block set or a few Shun knives individually for a friend who
is a 3rd year apprentice chef in her final year.

Now from reading various chef/knife forums, Shun knives do not seem to get alot of love. However my friend has her heart set on Shun.


I would really appreciate some input on the following from anyone who has professionally used or has knowledge of Shun knives:

1. Which Shun series to get? (The person in question will be a Chef by the end of the year). I've seen:
-Shun Classic
-Shun Pro
-Shun Reserve
-Shun Ken Onion
-Shun Premier

I know this might come down to personal preference, but overall which would suit a new Chef the best? What are the
advantages/disadvantages of each series


2. Knife block set or Individually selected knives?

Having no knowledge of Chef knives I am not sure if the knives that come in the knife block sets would be
adequate for her. What would you recommend? Getting a 9-11 piece knife block set or selecting individual knives?

If individual knives is the way to go, which knives and accessories should an average Chef always have in their collection?

(Money isn't an issue)



Thanks in advance for any advice.


Regards,
Squall

[looker]

First of all, don’t buy a set as most contain knives that may not be useful and even if you did have a need for them, you wouldn’t want all of your knives to have the same characteristics. You’re better off selecting each knife -- ala cart and choosing whatever characteristics are best suited for knifes’ intended tasks.

I’m not a pro, but something like this might be good start…10” chef’s knife, 3 ½” paring knife, Tournade paring knife / petty for garnishing, boning knife and some sort of beater for tough stuff, 12” meat slicer, 10” bread knife, Borosilicate honing rod, sharpening stones

Imo, Shuns are designed to appeal to the mass-market consumers’ deeply rooted preference for German knives and include qualities like attractive aesthetics, excellent fit & finished, large / weighted handles, hefty feel, curved blades and other traits normally associated with German Knives. Plus they’re easy to find, have a great warranty / customer service and offer free sharpening. On the other hand, performance & J-knife enthusiasts shun them b/c Shuns are more about look & feel than blade performance, and their chef’s knives have a deeply rounded (as opposed to the mostly flat) cutting edge of a typical Japanese chef’s knife. Anyway, your friend wants a Shun, so that’s what you should get her.

-Shun Classic… Are Shuns’ oldest and most popular knives made of VG-10 steel (~ 61 HRC), with a Damascus (ink pattern) cladding, r/l specific D shaped handles
-Shun Premier…pretty much the same as the Classics with a Tsuchime (hammered) & Damascus (ink pattern) cladding
-Shun Pro…Shuns’ rendition of traditional Japanese single bevel knives meant for Japanese cuisine specific cuts.
-Shun Reserve…made of SG2 powdered steel (~64 HRC) with a Damascus (ink pattern) cladding
-Shun Ken Onion…hated it. See posting #19 http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...chen-knife-set

If I’m not mistaken, Shun only use two steels; VG-10 (Classic, Premier, etc.) and the more advanced SG-2 (Elite, Kaji, Reserve, etc.). It might be easier to break down the various lines by steel, then pick whatever handle & cladding floats your boat. A pro would probably appreciate the advantages of the SG-2 steel on their primary go-to knives, and would ok with VG-10’s on their secondary knives. Hope this helps.

[FortyTwoBlades]

Shun is ok and all, but dang I wish they made a line without the pattern welded cladding. Laminated? Sure--ok I guess. But skip the expense of the cosmetic aspect. I like almost-grim functionality myself.

[Katalyst]

Thanks for the replies looker and FortyTwoBlades

Would you happen to have recommendations for alternatives to Shun? (Japanese knives) Something that will stay sharp and will be easy to maintain? (if possible something that is good looking like the Shuns, i think that's what caught her eyes in the first place). Money not an issue.

Regards.

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I'm a big fan of industrial food service/butcher's knives.

[looker]

Thanks for the replies looker and FortyTwoBlades

Would you happen to have recommendations for alternatives to Shun? (Japanese knives) Something that will stay sharp and will be easy to maintain? (if possible something that is good looking like the Shuns, i think that's what caught her eyes in the first place). Money not an issue.

Regards.

A) Alternatives to Shun…
- Miyabi knives from Henckels (Japan); specifically the VG-10 (Fusion or Kaizen) or SG-2 (Birchwood). Same availability, warranty and pricing as Shuns, but everything…looks, craftsmanship, F&F, blade profile/geometry/ heat treatment is better. Here’s a head to head comparison http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/kt...00dgy270.shtml

B) Cost no-object, Damascus bling, ubber high performance blade…aka stuff I can’t afford
- Hattori KD
- Devin Thomas ITK

C) Call Jon (japaneseknifeimports)

BTW, high end blades aren't worth spit w/o proper and regular maintenance. Make sure your friend knows how to or has a means of sharpen them with waterstones.

[bluntcut]

C) C) señor

[looker]

Shun is ok and all, but dang I wish they made a line without the pattern welded cladding. Laminated? Sure--ok I guess. But skip the expense of the cosmetic aspect. I like almost-grim functionality myself.

Yup! Shun does a fantastic job on the non-performance related side of things, but when you put the petal to the metal, their cutting performance is so-so. I’ve sharpened quite a number of Classics. Their VG-10 won’t hold an as acute angle as other VG-10s and likes to micro chip… even with a fat edge & micro bevel. The Damascus cladding is fugly, scratches easily and kind of thick.

I often wonder if their design team is bored or on crack. They have like a gazillion knives, spread across ~15 product lines. And WTF is up with all of their “special” handles, odd blade shapes, and funky grinds.

[FortyTwoBlades]

Goodness knows. They're mostly case candy at Williams Sonoma it seems. I think they need to differentiate their lines more, change their heat treatment (or even blade steel?) and tone down the "funk-factor." They can maintain the premium appearance through clean utilitarian lines and their present high polish. Make them slim, make them shiny, and make them crisp. They can do it--I know they can. They just have to...uh...DO it!

I can understand the culinary knife market to be a brutal one, though. It's tough to design fresh models that fit within such cleanly defined rigid parameters without resorting to gimmicks OR refinements that are so subtle (yet performance-boosting) that they're difficult to market to mass consumers.

[bluntcut]

For 99% of consumers, heavy knife implies quality. Shun & European traditional (read German) knives want to keep the 'heavy' aspect however consumers are willing to trade heavy for flashy bling & curvy, thereby their offers reflect that. Their blade grind is getting better & lighter but the handle remain hefty, which shifted the balance into the handle (away from heel), this problem is more noticable for knives sub 210mm in length. Of course it's not a problem for death/ax-grip users <= aha applicable to 95% users.

Ain't broken -> status-quo, thus far the majority of consumers voted with their $. Yeah, they got some of mine cold cash 7 yrs ago. Took me 6mos to smarten up, gave those knives away - knives receivers were extremely pleased.

[FortyTwoBlades]

Just another reason why I like industrial/professional knives. They're built to the demands of people that use the product all day, everyday, to put clothes on their back and food on their table. And those knives are light, easy to maintain, ergonomic, and...typically also inexpensive. But those are just my thoughts and this is a thread about Shun, so I'll say that if the set MUST be Shun then it should be individual knives, and it should be from their basic line. Chef's knife, paring knife, and either a bread knife or santoku.

And Bluntcut--not all German makers take the "heavier is better" approach. The F. Dick knives in my kitchen are VERY light (but also from their professional/industrial line--not home consumer line.) They make a series of heavy knives for the folks that like 'em, but even most of their premium lines aimed at the home consumer are light and more of the French style than the traditional German type.

[looker]

Imo, shun has had more than enough time, opportunities, and resources to do whatever they want. At one point, Shun defined the German/Japanese hybrid knife concept with the Classic and blew away the other mainstream brands. *Instead of trying to come up with way to build a better and or less costly mousetrap, they opted to create a gazzillon knives by changing the handle or cosmetics.*

AFAIC, the Miyabi lines from Henckels (Japan) is the new sheriff in town.*To play in Shuns sandbox, Henckels bought a facility in Japan to get j steels & blade smithing. *Got chef morimoto to endorse and design the knife specs. *It wouldn't surprise me at all if their design team was tasked to pick*apart the shuns with a fine tooth comb. *From soup to nuts, henckels one up them.

[dan oliver]

Good morning Katalyst. Looker is a knowledgeable guy. He made many worthwhile comments. Since she has heart set on Shun, you'll have to go with it. I have many Shun's. But, I just bought for a wedding present, the Henckles Myabi....slightly nicer.

Now, if you have the money, the Shun Kramer lines that Sur La Table sells is pretty special. They have stainless and non- stainless versions. I have the 7" santoku. Big heft...and a razor.

Personally, I think you could choose the right knife size & design from all of the different Shun offerings. They won't match, but who cares. For sure, she'll need a 10" chef, 3" parer and a 10" bread knife. A 7" santoku would be great as well.