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Thread: China copies.. my thoughts

  1. #1

    China copies.. my thoughts


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    I know this is a very big thing in the knife community and i also believe that it is very wrong.

    I just the other day saw people i know talking about buying fake xm18s from a certain knock off site and saying how they will pass them off as the real thing.

    The question i would like to ask to you guys is would you guys have as much of a problem with the fakes as you do know if they re-branded the fakes with a new emblem, labeled what steel they used on them, said in the description of the item that they are not affiliated with the true maker in anyway, that what they are doing is simply a replica of the real knife.

    I personally wouldnt think so lowly of the rip offs if they did something like that, car company's steal designs all of the time and just change minor things and emblems and people dont have that big of a problem. Also people buy kits to replicate older rare cars or new very expensive cars and people dont have a problem with that.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankieSchwartz View Post

    The question i would like to ask to you guys is would you guys have as much of a problem with the fakes as you do know if they re-branded the fakes with a new emblem, labeled what steel they used on them, said in the description of the item that they are not affiliated with the true maker in anyway, that what they are doing is simply a replica of the real knife.
    Yes. Because they are still making money off a stolen design. Which in my book is wrong. Unless they have strict permission to use the design, then its stealing.

  3. #3
    It doesn't make any difference to me whether it has the makers mark or another name it is still someone's intellectual property

  4. #4
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    If they make it obvious that it's a replica, it's not quite as bad as them trying to replicate it to the point where people have a hard time telling them apart. As somebody mentioned a while back, fakes don't really hurt the companies because knife makers like CRK, Strider, Hinderer target a certain type of customers.

    The people who would spend $400-800 on a knife would not buy a fake even if it's nearly like the real thing, because they know it is NOT the real thing. The people who would buy the fakes are the ones who can't afford the real thing or are unwilling to drop that kind of a coin for the real thing. So those companies aren't really losing any business because of the fakes. Those people wouldn't be buying from them anyways.

    The biggest problem is when someone tries to sell a fake as the real thing.
    Beckerhead #119

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    In almost all respects I agree with the community here. Theft is theft, whether you admit it or try and hide it.

    But that said, there are some $80 hindelels that are pretty sweet looking...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rycen View Post
    It doesn't make any difference to me whether it has the makers mark or another name it is still someone's intellectual property
    so you basically disagree with every single Hyundai that has ever been made because its a copy off of anther design? And about 50% of every other car companies models witch are just stolen from other companies.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by The Logical One View Post
    If they make it obvious that it's a replica, it's not quite as bad as them trying to replicate it to the point where people have a hard time telling them apart. As somebody mentioned a while back, fakes don't really hurt the companies because knife makers like CRK, Strider, Hinderer target a certain type of customers.

    The people who would spend $400-800 on a knife would not buy a fake even if it's nearly like the real thing, because they know it is NOT the real thing. The people who would buy the fakes are the ones who can't afford the real thing or are unwilling to drop that kind of a coin for the real thing. So those companies aren't really losing any business because of the fakes. Those people wouldn't be buying from them anyways.

    The biggest problem is when someone tries to sell a fake as the real thing.
    i agree with that

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    Ask Mick Strider or Rick Hinderer what they think of copies...

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    oh i bought this knife from benchmade for 5 dollar!!!! wow it failed that company sucks.

    Basically it ruins the rep of companies and has led to people crying for blood

  10. #10

    I guess what bothers me is how biased the issue can be. Take for example Kershaw's China-made knockoff of the old Buck design^.
    Nobody accuses Kershaw of being a design thief. Why not? How is this not a stolen design?


    And this design...

    ... doesn't belong to Kershaw either.

    I love Kershaw. I am not bashing the company. I am simply pointing out that all this fuss over design primacy is at best unrealistic.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankieSchwartz View Post
    I know this is a very big thing in the knife community and i also believe that it is very wrong.

    I just the other day saw people i know talking about buying fake xm18s from a certain knock off site and saying how they will pass them off as the real thing.

    The question i would like to ask to you guys is would you guys have as much of a problem with the fakes as you do know if they re-branded the fakes with a new emblem, labeled what steel they used on them, said in the description of the item that they are not affiliated with the true maker in anyway, that what they are doing is simply a replica of the real knife.

    I personally wouldnt think so lowly of the rip offs if they did something like that, car company's steal designs all of the time and just change minor things and emblems and people dont have that big of a problem. Also people buy kits to replicate older rare cars or new very expensive cars and people dont have a problem with that.

    Is there something wrong with you to think that it would be ok to do so??
    This is why we have such a screwed up society.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankieSchwartz View Post
    so you basically disagree with every single Hyundai that has ever been made because its a copy off of anther design? And about 50% of every other car companies models witch are just stolen from other companies.
    - What Hyundai design is an exact copy of another company's car? Not to mention the fact that Hyundai isn't making a fake Porsche and putting a Porsche badge on it.

  13. #13
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    Counterfeit is fraud and never the real thing. Passing something off and selling it as something that it is not is unethical, immoral and illegal.

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    did you just say that you heard people talking about buying fake hinderers and selling them as real ones? if they were on here or youtube id inform everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wapsi Kid View Post

    I guess what bothers me is how biased the issue can be. Take for example Kershaw's China-made knockoff of the old Buck design^.
    Nobody accuses Kershaw of being a design thief. Why not? How is this not a stolen design?


    And this design...

    ... doesn't belong to Kershaw either.

    I love Kershaw. I am not bashing the company. I am simply pointing out that all this fuss over design primacy is at best unrealistic.
    I feel like this is different. There are cheap Chinese knives being made to the exact shape and specs of the originals with the branding and everything. They aren't even marketed as fakes... Just 50 dollar SMFs...

  16. #16
    A distinction has to be made between a copy and a counterfeit.

    Copies are good, and legal absent any patent protection. Counterfeits are bad, and not legal, being fraudulent in nature.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankieSchwartz View Post
    The question i would like to ask to you guys is would you guys have as much of a problem with the fakes as you do know if they re-branded the fakes with a new emblem, labeled what steel they used on them, said in the description of the item that they are not affiliated with the true maker in anyway, that what they are doing is simply a replica of the real knife.
    .
    if they where not sold as the real thing i see nothing wrong with its like with wind proof lighters, you have zippo, ronson, team pistol all making pretty much the same thing with out looking at the markings most of the time you cant tell one from the other, they all work the same, so if its not braking any copy rights then its just a cheap version and wont make mush difference to the original high end brand, there market is the higher end and people that buy them like knives and wont settle for and thing but, a team pistol and zippo work the same way and produce fire but if you loves zippos you dont care that there is a cheaper alternative you buy the zippo, but if its not a zippo dont call it a zippo black is black and white is white if its a XM18 its and xm18 but if its not then its not and i dont want it :P

  18. #18
    I don't have a problem with copies, because they don't harm the makers of the original. I doubt a Sebenza has ever lost a sale to a SRM 710, for example.
    On the other hand, counterfeits are made with the express intent of taking sales away from the original. I don't like counterfeits.

  19. #19
    Now don't get me wrong guys, im not defending the fake thieves im just simply asking if they stoped making exact copies of knives and started making same in terms of looks but different in branding and materials would it make a difference to you?

    When you get right to it if they don't copy the logo then the only thing they share is looks, quality materials and fit and finish will be no where near the same

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankieSchwartz View Post
    I know this is a very big thing in the knife community and i also believe that it is very wrong.

    I just the other day saw people i know talking about buying fake xm18s from a certain knock off site and saying how they will pass them off as the real thing.

    The question i would like to ask to you guys is would you guys have as much of a problem with the fakes as you do know if they re-branded the fakes with a new emblem, labeled what steel they used on them, said in the description of the item that they are not affiliated with the true maker in anyway, that what they are doing is simply a replica of the real knife.

    I personally wouldnt think so lowly of the rip offs if they did something like that, car company's steal designs all of the time and just change minor things and emblems and people dont have that big of a problem. Also people buy kits to replicate older rare cars or new very expensive cars and people dont have a problem with that.
    In my opinion you need to re-think your life choices. If you had a successful business would you want some chump to come along and copy your product and sell it and possibly take some of your hard earned profits?

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