Fighter Stance ~ Horseman vs Roadhouse

[Nntrance]

I am still waiting to hear some of the cqc scenarios where a knife is proven better than a gun.

I take it you have never seen that brutal video where the guy wastes 2 or 3 armed Officers with a butcher knife?

[dragonram7]

I like both knives. Ill always take the largest knife in a fight. Ultimately, if trained, both weapon systems will be effective in a fight
I'm a retired cop that did teach firearms and defensive knife tactics. Most officers can't do a one second draw even with tons of training. An attacker can close distance very quickly with a knife. I've been in both knife and gun battle. Been s shot and stabbed. Getting stabbed is way more painful. If your in a knife fight, your going to get stabbed. Ill tale whichever weapon keeps bad guy and his potential infectious fluids further away from me. For me running wouldn't be an option. Too old and broken. My 6 year old can probably run faster. Due to my white collar job,I can't always carry a gun. I always have a knife on me.

[Josephldoyle]

We should also keep in mind the posibility of throwing a knife.

What instructor, military or civilian, taught you that throwing a knife in a combat situation is a acceptable method of attack?

[Josephldoyle]

That has to be the dumbest thing I have read on this forum. You never bring a knife to a gun fight. It's not being old school it's being stupid.

Quoted for truth.

[Over Kill]

What instructor, military or civilian, taught you that throwing a knife in a combat situation is a acceptable method of attack?

Its called sayoc kali and marsoc training.

You throw a back up knife as a lethal distraction while closing the distance on your foe.

Originally Posted by prw166
That has to be the dumbest thing I have read on this forum. You never bring a knife to a gun fight. It's not being old school it's being stupid.
Quoted for truth.

And I think you are foolish to believe this.

[gwhysow]

You're looking for a video by Dani Inosanto and Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr. Surviving the Edged Weapon...or something to that effect. This was an early precusor to the 21-foot rule. Very interesting point of reference, considering they use real officers in the examples, with no leadtime on explaination.

[pap11y]

You're looking for a video by Dani Inosanto and Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr. Surviving the Edged Weapon...or something to that effect. This was an early precusor to the 21-foot rule. Very interesting point of reference, considering they use real officers in the examples, with no leadtime on explaination.

Thanks for that (it was killing me trying to remember it). Sorry to the poster who's question I didn't answer originally.

Horseman vs roadhouse...

Both are so similar it would be splitting hair IMO unless you have different steels and locking mechanisms in the mix.

They'd both make an acceptable hole in flesh I am sure.

Get both and train filipino arts so you can use them both

[The Northern Pole]

The Horseman is definitely the better knife for combat. Its the smaller version of the CQC-8 with has been carried by both the British SAS (Special Assault Squadron) and SBS (Special Boat Squadron) as well as several seal teams. You can't beat that track record except maybe with the CQC-7.

[Josephldoyle]

Lethal distraction?

I am very aware of the 21 ft rule. I am aware of the effects on human tissue that both knives and firearms are capable of inflicting. Granted, a person with a knife may be able to take out one armed with a gun....however, that a knife would be the first option to use against a gun wielding opponent strikes me as fantasy. A firearm stacks the cards more favorably in your direction, which is what I would want going into a dangerous conflict.

[ctalon]

Original question - CQC 15.

[Over Kill]

Lethal distraction?

I am very aware of the 21 ft rule. I am aware of the effects on human tissue that both knives and firearms are capable of inflicting. Granted, a person with a knife may be able to take out one armed with a gun....however, that a knife would be the first option to use against a gun wielding opponent strikes me as fantasy. A firearm stacks the cards more favorably in your direction, which is what I would want going into a dangerous conflict.

I am not trying to say its smart to go into a gun battle with a few knives. What I am saying is if you were in a prolonged gunfight, you run out of ammo, all you have left is a knife it is very feasible for a trained operative to overcome a foe with A firearm.

^^^ there is the scenerio for you, one of many where a knife can infact win against firearns.

[strick284]

I smell ninja...mall ninja....

[Over Kill]

If you only knew buddy, if you only knew...

[timberweasel]

It is said that the best 'survival' knife is the one you have with you, and what 'survival' means will depend on the circumstance. I think Mr. Emerson has put a lot of thought into his designs (which are, by and large, mostly based around a 'tactical' ethos--yeah, there's that word again! ) and either could readily be used as a martial tool. Perhaps the question becomes: what knife would you prefer to carry? If you like tantos, get the Roadhouse. If not, maybe the Horseman is a better choice. I have a Horseman and it's a very nice knife... I hope I never find out how effective it is for self-defence!



If a knife-fight was imminent and inevitable, I don't think many would choose a folder over a fixed blade anyway. Especially if they knew they would be "going into battle" in advance as you suggest, OP. I'm not trying to be confrontational or rude with this comment...

I don't know a lot about knife-fighting, but I would suggest that most of the most renowned and effective fighting blades in history have had some kind of sweep or reverse angle to the blade: khukri, sabre, cutlass, scimitar, katana, etc.

Maybe the PracTac crowd could give you a better answer.

[Over Kill]

I don't know a lot about knife-fighting, but I would suggest that most of the most renowned and effective fighting blades in history have had some kind of sweep or reverse angle to the blade: khukri, sabre, cutlass, scimitar, katana, etc.

Maybe the PracTac crowd could give you a better answer.

Back when blades were the primary weapon of a soldier the horse was considered the battlefield tank of its time. Most of the blades you mentioned besides maybe the khurki had the popular sweep design as you said. The sweep design was popular for one main reason. It was highly effective on horseback. When Emerson designed the cqc8 I'm sure much of there develolpement steamed from popular blades in human history (this type of historical research developement id pretty obvious in all their blade designers) probably focused on this sweep you mentioned and hence the the horseman is born. Emerson even enhanced this design by making the tip have a greater level of stabbing penatration that was one of the main drawbacks of many of the sweeping "horseman" blades throughout history. I like the cqc8 out of the two blades I mentioned. It is an amazing design!

As a side note ~ why is there so much over analyxing going on here with some of your responses? "Well a gun beats a knife so its the dumbest thing I have ever heard to go into battle with a knife". "I wouldn't pick a folder to fight with." "Well what if this what if that?"... I asked a pretty simple question guys. If you went into battle tomorrow and you which of the mentioned knives would you want to bring with you?! I already had my opinion before I asked the question. I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Yes they are very similar but also very different that's the point. That's the reason why its the horseman and the roadhouse and not the commander or the cqc15. Thank you for your opinions everyone. I have enjoyed reading some of the responses.

*ill fix some spelling in the am.

[platz]

I'd choose the karambit. Man that thing deploys fast. It is also on your finger so when you get some distance between you and the target you can shoot with it still in your hand.

[gwhysow]

As much as i'd love to go for a K-bit, there is a fair bit of training to use it to its full potential. Out of the gate, most would use it like a jab or draw from strong-to-weak side, but wouldn't use it to its full usage...and that's bare-bones. Once a person starts flipping their blade -- well, that's a whole other animal. Even looking at the 'pros', like Dionaldo from FCS, you'll see forearms scared times over. All part of the learning curve.

Just like we've hit a million times over, it's all in the training...

And at the end of the day, a guy who's trained under Chris Sayoc, or spent time in MSOR, etc, wouldn't give two f*cks about what we think about 2 blades. USMC would just nail-shank, and skull f*ck.