Can America Afford Another War?

[Steven65]

I've not found information stating that Iran actually wants to build a bomb. Every article I read, and every news story I listen to talks about how Iran claims it wants a reactor for "peaceful" purposes.
I'll do some looking myself, but if anyone has an article handy please post a link where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad states that he wants a bomb.
Thanks

Please remember that the level of enrichment of the fissile material for power generation purposes is much lower than the levels of enrichment needed for weaponizing and producing a bomb. Therefore the hardware and the reactor required for producing it is very different.
By tracking what Iran has purchased in the way of tooling and hardware, and what kind of reactor they have built it is very clear that the Iranians are not producing peaceful civilian use material.

The Iranians were offered all the nuclear material that they needed for power generation by the West, pre-enriched to safe usable levels for power generation if they stopped attempting to producing their own. They refused.

This is the same as me building a smelter, hiring top engineers, and installing all the computer controlled equipment needed to produce powdered metallurgy steel like CPM-154 just so I can make a knife. Why would I not just phone Crucible, buy a completed bar and save myself millions?

Countries like Germany and Japan purchase this stuff all the time. Guess what they have in common.

Iran is enriching material to build a bomb. Of that everyone is certain.

[Chris Pierce]

Interesting. While I don't doubt your beliefs. I do have to wonder, Do you remember the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq had? The ones Saddam Hussein denied having. The ones we had to invade Iraq to protect everyone from. Where'd they go again?

My point is that Iran has enemies that are not above lying to us to get their way. Just like they did with Iraq.

[Codger_64]

500 tons of uranium shipped from Iraq

[Chris Pierce]

We already knew that Iraq had uranium. They had a failed reactor in the 80's Iran and then Israel attacked the site.

Iraq was supposedly chocked full of Chemical Weapons. All the talking heads said so.

[quietmike]

Q. Where were the WMD's?

A. 500 tons of yellow cake

Q. No not those WMDs, the other ones

LOL gotta love it.

[Codger_64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an...ss_destruction

Blister agents, sarin, mustard gas, anthrax... what are you looking for?

[timcsaw]

Q. Where were the WMD's?


A. 500 tons of yellow cake


Q. No not those WMDs, the other ones


LOL gotta love it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an...ss_destruction

Blister agents, sarin, mustard gas, anthrax... what are you looking for?

Oh YEA!?!? But, but, BUT that was just a little bit of WMD!! And it was OLD!! And it would have only killed a few thousandS of people if they'd have used it, and not the HUNDREDS of thousands of people that a lot MORE WMD could have killed so THERE!!!!

(course the amount of WMD found is of little consequence to any individual killed by just a tiny fraction of what was found)

[Codger_64]

So how many dirty bombs would 500 metric tons on yellowcake have made? What is the effect of inhaling yellow cake (refined uranium ore) or drinking it in your water?

[timcsaw]

So how many dirty bombs would 500 metric tons on yellowcake have made? What is the effect of inhaling yellow cake (refined uranium ore) or drinking it in your water?

Wouldn't make any difference to me if I were one of the 10, 100, 1000, 10,000 or more who were killed by the "non-existent WMD".

[Codger_64]

"Weapons of Single Destruction" (WSD) just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[quietmike]

So how many dirty bombs would 500 metric tons on yellowcake have made? What is the effect of inhaling yellow cake (refined uranium ore) or drinking it in your water?

Hundreds of thousands. The death toll wouldn't be the issue as much as the panic and disruption. If a two pound uranium dirty bomb were detonated in a downtown shopping area, how many soccer moms would believe the safety assurances of the authorities an bring their children to the local mall?

[timcsaw]

"Weapons of Single Destruction" (WSD) just doesn't have the same ring to it.

True.... unless you know in advance that YOU are the single guy that will be destroyed.

[Steven65]

Interesting. While I don't doubt your beliefs. I do have to wonder, Do you remember the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq had? The ones Saddam Hussein denied having. The ones we had to invade Iraq to protect everyone from. Where'd they go again?
My point is that Iran has enemies that are not above lying to us to get their way. Just like they did with Iraq.

I hear your concerns and putting the lives of American service men and woman on the line for a false positive. This has caused many to question and doubt future threats.
All I can say about it is that had Iraq had a WMD capability, and the US knew about it, AND DID NOTHING how would everyone feel when an Anthrax bomb landed on a US base in Kuwait?

As I have stated in past threads on the subject, I don't agree with the US invasion of Iraq and the subsequent "Hearts and Minds" campaign. I believe that it could have all been accomplished with an increase in airpower and less squeamishness from the liberals about killing the enemy. However I think that it is very important not to allow a previous mistake to prevent us from acting against a possible catastrophe in the future.

Every intelligence service and Nuclear Agency has said that Iran poses an imminent and direct threat to Middle East and World stability. When they aquire nuclear weapons they will be direct threat to everyone.
The Israelis would not be saddling up and risking open war with them if they did not feel directly threatened with genuine fear.

Failing to act against a threat today because of an error made yesterday is a dangerous thing to do.

[jdm61]

You do realize that 500 TONS of yellowcake at 3% purity could be refined into at least 15 TONS of 90% pure weapons grade uranium, right? IIRC, if you refined the stuff to the cut off point for "highly enriched" uranium, which is 20%, you would get what? 75 tons? The only thing is that modern commercial reactors to not need that kind of purity. Anything 20% or more is most useful for compact reactors like those used on submarines or ships. So why did Iraq have 500 tons of yellowcake? They had no reactors adn hadn't had them for years. What the did have was enough uranium for perhaps 600 warheads if they could have refined the stuff. Perhaps that had all of that yellowcake for the same reason that they had at one point enough precusorsor chemicals for insecticide to kill every big on the planet 3 times over? Please ignore the fact that the same organophosphate counpounds are also the precursor chemicals for Sarin.

We already knew that Iraq had uranium. They had a failed reactor in the 80's Iran and then Israel attacked the site.

Iraq was supposedly chocked full of Chemical Weapons. All the talking heads said so.

[Triton]

I've not found information stating that Iran actually wants to build a bomb. Every article I read, and every news story I listen to talks about how Iran claims it wants a reactor for "peaceful" purposes.
I'll do some looking myself, but if anyone has an article handy please post a link where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad states that he wants a bomb.
Thanks

Oh come on. The iranians (you know the guys sitting on top of large proven oil reserves) claim that they want nuclear power for "peaceful purposes" and you believe them? If they say it then it must be true. Are you really that naive, or just that hopeful?

[timcsaw]

Oh come on. The iranians (you know the guys sitting on top of large proven oil reserves) claim that they want nuclear power for "peaceful purposes" and you believe them? If they say it then it must be true. Are you really that naive, or just that hopeful?

Maybe Imadinnerjacket and the Mullets are just concerned about globull warming and are trying to go "green"?

[ttoney83]

When former Mossad Chiefs say that a nuclear armed Iran is not necessarily a threat to Israel, I tend to believe them......Tamir Pardo, MOSSAD CHIEF, said that Israel is working with many different methods to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, but that even if they did make them they are not necessarily a threat.
Only silly Americans who believe the hype from our Propagandists, and the Chicken Hawk Netanyahu believe this BS......
Check it out America! YOU ARE BEING DUPED!! STOP BEING DUPES!!!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/07...eat-to-israel/

According to three ambassadors present at the briefing, the intelligence chief said that Israel was using various means to foil Iran’s nuclear program and would continue to do so.

But if Iran actually obtained nuclear weapons, it would not mean the destruction of the State of Israel.

“What is the significance of the term existential threat?” the ambassadors quoted Pardo as asking.

[Professor]

Personally, I think we should revisit isolationism. Let other countries catch up on the being-hated factor.

Prof.

[OliverH]

When former Mossad Chiefs say that a nuclear armed Iran is not necessarily a threat to Israel, I tend to believe them......Tamir Pardo, MOSSAD CHIEF, said that Israel is working with many different methods to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, but that even if they did make them they are not necessarily a threat.
Only silly Americans who believe the hype from our Propagandists, and the Chicken Hawk Netanyahu believe this BS......
Check it out America! YOU ARE BEING DUPED!! STOP BEING DUPES!!!
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/07...eat-to-israel/

You might enjoy this pretty brilliant article by a retired career diplomat, summing up the current state of American foreign policy. Among other jewels:

Israel has spent a year and a half trying to blackmail us politically into committing ourselves to an assault on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Israel admits that it cannot carry out a militarily effective attack on Iran on its own but insists that, unless we agree to do for it what it cannot do for itself, it will go ahead and attack Iran anyway, expecting to drag us into the fight.

The latest twist is a campaign by prominent Israeli politicians and their American flacks to persuade us to give Israel still more weapons to improve its ability to attack Iran. This, they say, is the price we must pay to persuade Israel to agree to delay a unilateral assault on Iran till after our elections. As an astute observer of this interaction has pointed out, this is a bit like a pyromaniac demanding more matches to distract himself from setting fire to his neighborhood.

[jdm61]

Oh, Israel COULD carry out an attack, just not one that is "acceptable" to the international community. Israel can carry out a DEVASTATING attack on any target within 7500 miles of them, but you wouldn't like the aftermath.

You might enjoy this pretty brilliant article by a retired career diplomat, summing up the current state of American foreign policy. Among other jewels: