Queen purchase finalized!

[zippofan]

My main complaint with Queen was that I had to learn to sharpen without having a clue and messing one up. The problem with cheap knives coming with a decent edge (SAK) and falling apart just when they are dull means you toss it in a drawer and buy new, thus never really learning. That's what happened to me. When I got back into knives one of the first traditionals I bought (after hanging around here ) was a Queen. You guessed it, thick grind, uneven bevels.

I wish I learned to sharpen when I was a kid, I imagine dad tried to show me but I was more interested in other things

[fatcorgi]

...I believe that with a serviceable edge, its easy enough to satisfy both the enthusiasts and the one off knife buyers, those that can reprofile will, and those that can't still have an edge that is sharp enough, it doesn't have to be either/or. Recent GEC knives are the best rolemodel here: thin, even grinds - perfectly reprofile-able, but still sharp out of the box.

BTW, I'm probably taking this out of context of the argument, but SAKs are not disposable knives, I've never had trouble resharpening them, and my Vic SAKs will most certainly outlive me by many generations

[Boggs]

Bob......

Good question on out of stock....though the beginning of the year Queen Cutlery not only increased their cost to dealers but also instituted shorter work weeks and layoffs...signs of trouble for a company....but if there's a certain knife you like by all means buy additional, but don't buy them thinking costs are going to increase to GEC levels......Queen Cutlery no longer has the reputation nor the quality to do so.....

[Sparljo]

I sent a pair of Queen made knives for repair in once. The repair guy took it upon himself to re-sharpen the hand honed edges with a super steep grinder edge.
I lost alot of blade fixing those edges.

[puukkoman]

But I don't think it holds for the general knife-buying public. For those folks, people who just want a knife that fulfills its intended purpose, I believe the car analogy is apt.

...those people are the Wall-E consumer-blobs.

[puukkoman]

Maybe I should pick up a couple more Amber Stag Bone fixed blades in D2 just in case...

This is kinda what I'm thinking. Seems like maybe it's a good idea to get doubles of my favorite Queens in D2, in case they start replacing the tool steel blades with soft stainless.

(If I want soft stainless, I'll get an Italian stiletto. )

[Blues]

If Queen becomes a boutique producer and changes over from D2 (or other excellent tool, carbon or even high end stainless) to lesser steels...then I'll have to content myself with the pieces I already own as there won't be anything there of interest to me.

[pinnah]

If Queen becomes a boutique producer and changes over from D2 (or other excellent tool, carbon or even high end stainless) to lesser steels...then I'll have to content myself with the pieces I already own as there won't be anything there of interest to me.

I would classify Queen (and GEC) as a boutique producer already.

They are limited production, not high-volume. In terms of business model, marketing, distribution and manufacturing processes, they are a relatively small business with limited mass market. Yes, they happen to use traditional hard use tool steels, just like GEC uses carbon.

Compare Queen in this way to Buck, Case, Victorinox, Opinel or even Kershaw. Those brands are all high volume, mass produced and more mass marketed.

Nothing here is a ding against Queen in any way. Most areas of production and collecting give rise to both mass market vendors and more boutique names. Both have their place.

I hope I'm not stepping on toes saying this. But this came up in a discussion about GEC's Sodbusters and their Farm and Field line of knives.

Is GEC's intention to make real working knives or homages to working knives.

The same could be said about Queen. If they are going to make real working knives to be used by real working folk in real working situations, they need to hit price points similar to what Buck, Case, Victorinox, Kershaw, CRKT and Opinel (ouch) are hitting. They also need to show up on bubble pack on retail displays at brick and mortar stores and to compete with these brands.

I don't see it. Queen has an opportunity to produce wonderful traditional knives, but like GEC, "traditional" here means homages to knife designs of the past at higher prices.

[Blues]

Pinnah, I agree, you're absolutely right about their being a boutique producer already in the sense you so aptly described. I suppose I was using the term (perhaps not very clearly or precisely) to describe my aversion to the transition to what I consider more "effete" offerings versus the more "muscular" line of knives they have been known for in the past.

By way of example, I'd much prefer a pattern to my liking to be offered in D2, (or other tool steel, carbon steel or high end stainless), as well as jigged bone, stag or micarta as opposed to a lower grade stainless (that takes a nice finish) and pearl, abalone or MOT (not that there's anything wrong with any of those covers if used tastefully). And gimmick knives, don't get me started.

As with anything else, YMMV. My two cents is worth exactly that.

[waynorth]

I would just hate to see GEC go the big business/ mass market route. Blister packs - yuck!
I use very well made knives. I prefer that they are hand made by Americans or Canadians, or smaller makers the world over, who have a chance of living a better than slave-like existence.
The companies are sometimes shoe-string operations, but I will support them because they enhance my life, and provide satisfying work.

[midnight flyer]

If Queen becomes a boutique producer and changes over from D2 (or other excellent tool, carbon or even high end stainless) to lesser steels...then I'll have to content myself with the pieces I already own as there won't be anything there of interest to me.

I am with you 100%, Elliot. I have several knives in D2, and to me it hits all the right requirements for me as a good knife steel, and an exceptional folder steel. I have never, ever, once understood the stern warnings about how hard it is to sharpen. It takes a great edge and hangs onto it very well. It sharpens easily on diamond gear and on ALOX as well. I have even polished the edges on an old Arkansas hard stone before. Love the stuff.

I would classify Queen (and GEC) as a boutique producer already.

I agree. The hard core working knife segment of the population has moved on. Heavier bladed knives, G10 scales, excellent stainless, lifetime warranties and very affordable pricing have replaced $75 - $150 knives as hard work knives. Out on the jobsite, Buck is still the undisputed king among traditional pattern carrying guys. But like me, the double up with a larger hard working knife that they may have all of $30 into like Ecolites, Vantages, etc., that have the selling points mentioned above. And they are good knives, too.

Even GEC has noticed the need for a less expensive knife. In a stroke of absolute masterful marketing and customer expectation management, they announced up from that they were lowering their expectations of fit and finish on the new "working knives". Even though these are probably good working knives, workman won't be buying them. A 110 is still $32 at our local sporting good store as are many fine Buck offerings. All with a written lifetime warranty. And a CASE soddie is still less than $25 at our local Lowe's.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure most of the Queen/GEC offerings would make great work knives. That style of knife serves well now and has for a century. But a workman's knife doesn't have burnt India Stage handles, it isn't a limited edition numbered knife that comes with a certificate of authenticity. Nor does it cost the equivalent of a day or day and a half's net wages of a worker.

I have several Queen knives and love them all. We have a great dealer here on this forum that assures 100% satisfaction and he means it so I buy with confidence from him. So like everyone else here, I am hoping for the best because there are patterns from them I want to try in D2. Boutique or not, they are great knives at affordable prices that do everything they are designed to do.

Robert

[willgoy]

I would just hate to see GEC go the big business/ mass market route. Blister packs - yuck!
I use very well made knives. I prefer that they are hand made by Americans or Canadians, or smaller makers the world over, who have a chance of living a better than slave-like existence.
The companies are sometimes shoe-string operations, but I will support them because they enhance my life, and provide satisfying work.

Exactly!

[knarfeng]

Sticking with knives, I think all knives, whether custom or production, should be delivered with a good serviceable edge ready to be employed. What the user does after that is his affair.

Exactly so. I heartily agree.

I would just hate to see GEC go the big business/ mass market route. Blister packs - yuck!
I use very well made knives. I prefer that they are hand made by Americans or Canadians, or smaller makers the world over, who have a chance of living a better than slave-like existence.
The companies are sometimes shoe-string operations, but I will support them because they enhance my life, and provide satisfying work.

Charlie, you have stated my beliefs better than I have ever been able to do.

[sierra11b]

Hopefully these new offerings from Mr. Daniels is a means of blowing out potentially old stock in keeping the staff working as much as possible during the transition. As with any takeover you'll undoubtedly have inventory and a lot of hurdles to overcome until things get back on track.

I'm a devout #48 whittler fan and have purchased about eight over the years. Of all of them I was only completely happy with one and that was the Queen Classic in Red Jigged Bone and D2. The blades have perfect thin profiles, great fit and grinds, nice spring tension, and the jigged bone is very nice with its tight jigging.

Others were hit and miss but my biggest complaint was that the blade profiles were much thicker on all the others, especially on the coping and pen blades. One in Birdseye Maple was downright terrible in every possible department.

Aside from the obvious hopes in that all Queen knives meet stricter QC, I sincerely hope to see a lot more offerings for all knives in D2 (and even 1095) but with far more quality handle options. I'm done with the wood handled Queens as I find them a bit mundane but do realize their place, along with synthetic material handles, in keeping costs competitive. But so long as I am confident that my next #48 whittler will meet my expectations of the one mentioned, I'd happily shell out in excess of $100 for some true stag or some beautiful brown jigged bone.

[Bob W]

Hopefully these new offerings from Mr. Daniels is a means of blowing out potentially old stock in keeping the staff working as much as possible during the transition. As with any takeover you'll undoubtedly have inventory and a lot of hurdles to overcome until things get back on track.

When Schrade closed the marked was flooded with "end of days" knives assembled at the factory seemingly from whatever parts would fit together. And existing stock was sold at incredible mark-downs. There must have been warehouses full of the stuff.

Contrarily, when Camillus closed stock was already low. Dealers weren't being supplied and many models were out of stock. There were some bargains to be found (Timberlite), but generally not on the popular high-quality products (Beckers).

In the case of Queen, it's hard to say what will happen. Supply-wise they seem more similar to the Camillus situation, but of course Queen isn't actually going out of business. If the 'new' company is going to produce the same models as the previous management, there'd be no reason to close out the old stock. And if they are going to change-up the entire product line, there doesn't seem to be a massive supply of old stock that would warrant severe price-cutting.

My favorite Queen is a #89ACSB. To be on the safe side I ordered two more ACSB knives last night, the #73 and #85 in D2. The current prices are already so low ($55) I don't see how they make a profit selling them. And I had to order from different dealers as no single dealer had both models available. So I doubt these will ever see further discounts, even if the new owners make them obsolete. If anything I expect a new, higher pricing structure.

[Fanglekai]

I hope they keep using ACSB because it's fantastic. It's what drew me to them in the first place.

[waynorth]

Charlie, you have stated my beliefs better than I have ever been able to do.

It is always satisfying when someone understands what one is trying to state!
It's not always all about the money!

[Blues]

It is always satisfying when someone understands what one is trying to state!
It's not always all about the money!

Huh? Well, you obviously need to watch "Jerry Maguire" again.


(You had me at "it's not always all about the money". )

[rprocter]

I think the majority of Queen's sales are to knife enthusiasts, rather than 'non-knifers'.
Hopefully Queen now will consider what patterns to make and possibly what changes might be made to existing patterns. (everything from blade choices, steel, handles, etc.)
Making changes is expensive, especially any tooling up for a pattern not previously offered. Mistakes in judgement cannot be afforded.
I believe it would be of great help to Queen if they had a group of experienced Traditional knifers who are willing to give an opinion on potential changes to the knives that might be offered for sale.
Easy to do with the internet, this volunteer work would not be onerous, and Queen would be far more likely to hit home runs with every offering.
roland

[quattromori]

Roland,
I often wondered whether the more "boutique" knife companies (Queen, Canal Street, GEC) have any sort of "traditionalists' team" (outside the owner/designer) to give opinions before a project gets into production. I know that we all have different opinions on any topic, but for niche companies I guess it would be a plus.

Fausto