Are there too many good knife makers?

[Lorien]

Throw the best names in the knife industry into a conversation with the average person and they will have no clue. That needs to change.

I believe that is changing and that the meaning behind this thread reflects exactly why it will continue change.
Which is why I also believe that it is important that custom makers come off as people with integrity in general.
Image is very important as well right now, imo.

I find it interesting that under current political circumstances in the States, that so many knife restrictions have been challenged and repealed, while at the same time, in some places, restrictions are tighter and more draconian than ever.

Knives are certainly on the radar, and will become more so. More people will become exposed to knives in the news, for various, and unfortunately some very negative reasons as the economies of our societies morph and either sink or swim. But also for very good reasons; guys like Bob Kramer and Daniel Winkler, plus a ton of others take a sensible and reasoned approach to marketing, while others take an approach, equally effective, aimed at a market where the knives will in likelihood be purchased as and probably used as weapons.

All the same, more people will be exposed to hand made knives, as there are more people making them- pros and ams alike. The number of makers increases, so increases the potential number of newbs introduced to hand made knives.

[diggercat]

I wish that all makers that have web sites would keep them current. In today's time a lot of collectors that I know are getting tired of seeing makers web sites that are years out of date. In my opinion this is driving away new collectors. For instance you look at a makers site and he list a knife for $450. You get a hold of him if you are lucky and he tells you that the knife is know $900 and he has a 1 year or longer waiting list. How many new collectors would be willing to puchace a knife from a maker like this. I had rather see a maker list no price and tell people that they are not taking orders at this time than lead people astray. Makers web sites in my opinion are the key to attracting new collectors. Also so many makers will not even show their current work. Their web sites show work that they done years ago.

[Doug C]

Collectors should be in hog heaven right now.

Most certainly agree with Don !
Enjoy the Hunt.

Doug

[Buffalohump]

Was I being too obscure? Tell me which parts you didnt understand and I'll extrapolate but I thought it was quite clear: yes indeed, there is an over-supply of makers, so I agree with the original poster's question. Obviously the US market is depressed as compared with, say, 5 years ago. As to the international aspect, do you think only people in the USA collect knives? Its an international market, but a lot of people cannot import certain types of knives due to laws in their countries, most of which are relatively new. Germany and Australia have both outlawed one hand openers in recent times, hence buyers/collectors are largely restricted to fixed blades and slipjoints. A LARGE part of the custom market is in tactical folders. Still too vague???

?????

[SharpByCoop]

Then come in the new JS's with the cleanest work imaginable. Even the non-ABS smiths: Casey, Branson, Craddock, even Serge, et al. Great stuff.

My intention was to point out how those who are yet to be tested for the JS mark are producing remarkable knives.

I used the term 'non-ABS' incorrectly. Some, probably all of these guys, fully support the ABS and are members. My mistake.

Coop

[RogerP]

There are some great nuggets of truth in your statements, and some assumptions...

I own about five customs I use, but I own about 60. If my intention was to simply purchase knives with the intent to use them, my needs were fulfilled about 8 years ago. I submit the MAJORITY of knives that come MY way are completely usable, but with an intention for collection ownership, with an eye open for future sale. So who's majority is correct?

Ben, you are probably correct in that your wonderful 'entry level' customs are getting usage and you sell so many. From what I've admired you are making knives well under $400, right? Cool.

You WILL find that once your user pool has met their needs, you will be providing knives to them which are completely useful, and probably have even more work. The savvy collector will acquire these and reconsider losing the value 50% upon opening that cardboard box (Of which he has six other knives well-suited to the task.)

Just a little counterpoint to chew on.

Coop

Well said Coop.

[Gary Mulkey]

I own about five customs I use, but I own about 60. If my intention was to simply purchase knives with the intent to use them, my needs were fulfilled about 8 years ago. I submit the MAJORITY of knives that come MY way are completely usable, but with an intention for collection ownership, with an eye open for future sale.

Coop

Excellant point, Coop. I learned long ago that if you are gearing your marketing toward the user market that you can usually expect to sell each customer only one knife and must always be looking for new customers.

Nearly all of my repeat customers are collectors (as well as a good percentage of my first time customers). For this reason it only makes good business sense to gear my efforts toward the collector market, both existing and first timers.

Gary

[RogerP]

Gary - exactly correct. Had I purchased only the custom knives I needed to use, I wouldn't have bought anything at all in the last 20 years.

[Gary Mulkey]

Gary - exactly correct. Had I purchased only the custom knives I needed to use, I wouldn't have bought anything at all in the last 20 years.

When it comes right down to it, the only knife that we NEED is the one next to our fork . Thankfully there are a lot of people with WANTS.

Gary

[The Virginian]

Was I being too obscure? Tell me which parts you didnt understand and I'll extrapolate but I thought it was quite clear: yes indeed, there is an over-supply of makers, so I agree with the original poster's question. Obviously the US market is depressed as compared with, say, 5 years ago. As to the international aspect, do you think only people in the USA collect knives? Its an international market, but a lot of people cannot import certain types of knives due to laws in their countries, most of which are relatively new. Germany and Australia have both outlawed one hand openers in recent times, hence buyers/collectors are largely restricted to fixed blades and slipjoints. A LARGE part of the custom market is in tactical folders. Still too vague???

Hi.

I can't speak for Kevin, but I'll tell you the part of your post that I personally could not get my head around. Maybe someone else had the same difficulty. Or maybe not, as I am often confused..

The very first sentence in your post was:

"There will always be more knife makers than collectors."

That might be true, but off-hand I wouldn't think so. Every show I have ever been to had more buyers (or at least prospective buyers) than makers/exhibitors.

Anyway, I cannot think of too many other insustries where there are more manufacturers/producers than consumers. Seems to me like a recipe for disaster. But like I said, I am often confused.

[LX_Emergency]

Germany and Australia have both outlawed one hand openers in recent times, hence buyers/collectors are largely restricted to fixed blades and slipjoints.

That statement is such a massive simplifying of the actual law that it's not even correct for Germany. The law is actually much more complex and reasonable.

[peterinct]

Many good perceptions and valid opinions in this thread. GREAT reading.

In discussing the overall population or "market" if you will, there is also a VAST majority that have absolutely no conception of "collectible" knives or even quality knives. Having lived and worked in the northeast, and being part of the corporate environment for 3 decades, I can count on one hand the number of people I have encountered, that have even a basic interest in knives. Most would consider a Buck knife bought at Walmart a high end knife!

I interact with people in various walks of life such as cyclists, bikers, custom car collectors and builders, athletes, tradesman, etc., and while many of them appreciate fine things and good quality in tools, it is rare that they are aware of, appreciate, or would EVER consider even paying over $100 for a knife.

Many of my friends think I am more than a little strange due to my interest in knives, guns and weapons!

Just being on this forum shows an interest in knives that does not exist in most " mainstream" individuals.

At local gun shows, typically, there are a few purveyors that have a good selection of manufactured and custom knives, but from appearances they do VERY minimal business, and those that have low quality imported junk, with "bling" that seem to be selling the most knives?

This IS a GREAT time to be a collector....ESPECIALLY those fortunate enough to have the disposable income to match their collecting desires

Peter

[Kevin Jones]

Was I being too obscure? Tell me which parts you didnt understand and I'll extrapolate but I thought it was quite clear: yes indeed, there is an over-supply of makers, so I agree with the original poster's question. Obviously the US market is depressed as compared with, say, 5 years ago. As to the international aspect, do you think only people in the USA collect knives? Its an international market, but a lot of people cannot import certain types of knives due to laws in their countries, most of which are relatively new. Germany and Australia have both outlawed one hand openers in recent times, hence buyers/collectors are largely restricted to fixed blades and slipjoints. A LARGE part of the custom market is in tactical folders. Still too vague???

There will always be more knife makers than collectors. After all, its a luxury item so the percentage of people who are in a position to spend serious money on such a thing must be quite small.

Hello Buff, the statement above was what had me scratching my head. Even though I see the increase in the quantity of knifemakers, as opposed to collectors as a real issue, I don't think it will ever get to the point where there are more knfemakers than collectors.

In regard to the second part of your statement, there is a tremendous amount of money being spent on collectibles such as coins, art, stamps, guns, cars, motorcycles and such, it's just unfortunate that custom knives are not even getting a measurable amount of the total spend.
One of the main objectives of the CKCA Jerry Fisk Cutlery Challenge is to expose custom knives to these larger collectible communities with hopes of gaining their interest.
http://customknifecollectorsassociat...Challenge.html

[Kevin Jones]

When it comes right down to it, the only knife that we NEED is the one next to our fork . Thankfully there are a lot of people with WANTS.

Gary

You're right Gary, throughout most of the history of mankind, having a knife or knife-like tool/weapon on your side was crucial to survival, not true any longer.
Even though I have no data, I would think the vast majorty of folks who "use" knives are buying production knives.

[Buffalohump]

My bad! I meant it the opposite way around...

Hello Buff, the statement above was what had me scratching my head. Even though I see the increase in the quantity of knifemakers, as opposed to collectors as a real issue, I don't think it will ever get to the point where there are more knfemakers than collectors.

In regard to the second part of your statement, there is a tremendous amount of money being spent on collectibles such as coins, art, stamps, guns, cars, motorcycles and such, it's just unfortunate that custom knives are not even getting a measurable amount of the total spend.
One of the main objectives of the CKCA Jerry Fisk Cutlery Challenge is to expose custom knives to these larger collectible communities with hopes of gaining their interest.
http://customknifecollectorsassociat...Challenge.html

[Buffalohump]

By all means throw some light on the subject. A friend of mine and fellow knife nut visited family there about this time last year and the way he explained it, folders that can be opened with one hand are outlawed for civilians... is this incorrect?

That statement is such a massive simplifying of the actual law that it's not even correct for Germany. The law is actually much more complex and reasonable.

[Bruce Bump]

This is my advice but better stated when newer makers try to enter this field. I have my own circle of collectors now but it took many years to develop that. There are far more potential buyers than the number of makers at this time can satisfy because most of the general public relates knives to cheap truck stop import crap. We as makers are trying hard to spread the word but that wont happen if we continue our own tight circles.

As some have pointed out, as a community we really need to focus on increased marketing. There's a lot of people out there, with a lot of disposable income, that are just looking for things to throw their money at...and they have never even heard of custom knives.

The industry tends to focus on itself....makers market their goods on knife forums, buy paid ads in knife magazines, etc. How often do you see ads for custom knives in non knife publications? This makes sense for makers since they know people that buy knife mags are interested in knives...but it doesn't help expand the industry's customer base. Those making kitchen knives, desk knives, etc could market in architectural magazines. People making gentleman folders could market in upscale fashion mags. Etc.

Throw words like Ferarri, Louis Vuitton, Rolex, in a conversation and your average person knows what you are talking about. Throw the best names in the knife industry into a conversation with the average person and they will have no clue. That needs to change. I doubt knifemakers will ever achieve the same brand recognition as the afore mentioned brands, but every little bit helps.

Buzz about the industry needs to be created. This might also help us keep our knife rights from being taken away if the industry had a larger fan base.

[LX_Emergency]

@Buffalohump
Yes, and no.

From what I understand if you don't have a legitimate reason for carrying a knife (hunting, camping, work related, etc) the knife can be either One hand opening OR locking but not both.

So a one hand opening slipjoint is fine.

A two hand opening lockback/linerlock/framelock is fine.

A one hand locking knife is not OK (without ligitimate reason.

Also those restricions do not apply to fixed blades. They can be carried up untill a certain bladelength...though I'm not 100% sure what that length is.

With all that though. Wisdom is alway needed. You don't carry a fixed blade on the belt in the center of Berlin even IF it's legal. That's just asking for trouble. Out in the country and in smaller towns and such, no one will even bat an eyelash.

[BenR.T.]

There are some great nuggets of truth in your statements, and some assumptions...

I own about five customs I use, but I own about 60. If my intention was to simply purchase knives with the intent to use them, my needs were fulfilled about 8 years ago. I submit the MAJORITY of knives that come MY way are completely usable, but with an intention for collection ownership, with an eye open for future sale. So who's majority is correct?

Ben, you are probably correct in that your wonderful 'entry level' customs are getting usage and you sell so many. From what I've admired you are making knives well under $400, right? Cool.

You WILL find that once your user pool has met their needs, you will be providing knives to them which are completely useful, and probably have even more work. The savvy collector will acquire these and reconsider losing the value 50% upon opening that cardboard box (Of which he has six other knives well-suited to the task.)

Just a little counterpoint to chew on.

Coop

Great points Coop. And you are correct that my market is different than say DH III, Bruce Bump, and so on.
I think makers need to use savvy marketing to reach their intended market, no matter what that may be.

I don't have collectors lining up for my higher end stuff($500-$700), so I have to market myself and my product so that they feel it is a good investment or addition to their collection.

Your points are well received!

[Russ Andrews]

This question has been around for at least the last 25 years, and the answer hasn't changed.

No, there aren't too many knifemakers.....there are enough though, to keep old hands
and new guys stretching our knifemaking AND business skill levels, as well as lookong for
new markets......and enough to allow clients alot more choices.