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Thread: Brut de Forge?

  1. #41

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    I was typing when you were posting, don hanson, I'll google him now.

  2. #42
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    Three pages and not one Joe Keeslar mention? I though he pioneered the term AND the look.


    (Buddy Thomason image)

    I love the seemingly rough finish with the precision of good grinds and fitment. It's an anomaly that draws you in.

    Coop
    Jim Cooper - Capturing the Artistry and Significance of Handmade Knives. • Makers: Read Post 815 AND Post 891 •
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpByCoop View Post
    Three pages and not one Joe Keeslar mention? I though he pioneered the term AND the look.

    I love the seemingly rough finish with the precision of good grinds and fitment. It's an anomaly that draws you in.

    Coop
    Says you, amigo...personally, I find it THE WORST of design, and aesthetically horrid.

    This particular photo...it's a hunter, with a super fat butt, and uncomfortable looking choil/ricasso region and the absolutely bizarre juxtaposition of super duper burl wood with what appears to be an unfinished blade.

    Some like it, some don't....as they say, there is an ass for every seat.

    Best Regards,

    STeven Garsson
    Victory comes with the sword still in the scabbard
    The Way of the warrior is a dying art


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohai999 View Post
    This particular photo...it's a hunter, with a super fat butt, and uncomfortable looking choil/ricasso region and the absolutely bizarre juxtaposition of super duper burl wood with what appears to be an unfinished blade.
    Having handled a few of Joe's knives, I find his execution of this particular feature to be exemplary. The index finger slides up both comfortably and securely against the concave steel, obviating the need for a guard. You don't like the look, and that's more than fine. But I believe it to be an example of sound - if unconventional - ergonomics.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
    One area where the brut-de-forge finish looks ever so right is on period pieces such as this warhawk, which would look almost absurd with bright shiny steel:

    Now THAT I like.

    But in this case, the "Brut de Forge" characteristic covers the entire blade. It doesn't look like it is unfinished, damaged, corroded, random, or artificial. It looks organic.

    I really appreciate all of the comments here. It has given me something to think about and maybe the next Brut de Forge knife I hold in my hand I will see in a new light.

  6. #46
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    I'm a huge fan of the look especially if done right! My opinion & my money... so I buy what I like.

    To me to Brut de forge knives scream to be used & used hard!!
    Last edited by Redsnake1997; 10-03-2012 at 12:24 PM.

  7. #47
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    STeven,

    Please, PLEASE , when you pass on one of these horrid JK examples at a show, take down the price and the buyer for me. I'd like to acquire one someday.

    Especially if it has his vine leaf engraving.

    Thanks for your insight.

    Coop
    Jim Cooper - Capturing the Artistry and Significance of Handmade Knives. • Makers: Read Post 815 AND Post 891 •
    • 2014 Website - Below • SBC on Facebook •

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpByCoop View Post
    STeven,

    Please, PLEASE , when you pass on one of these horrid JK examples at a show, take down the price and the buyer for me. I'd like to acquire one someday.

    Especially if it has his vine leaf engraving.

    Thanks for your insight.

    Coop
    You got it buddy!

    Best Regards,

    STeven Garsson
    Victory comes with the sword still in the scabbard
    The Way of the warrior is a dying art


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Virginian View Post
    Now THAT I like.

    But in this case, the "Brut de Forge" characteristic covers the entire blade. It doesn't look like it is unfinished, damaged, corroded, random, or artificial. It looks organic.
    I think for me, this quote about the entire package reflecting the brut de forge characteristic is what usually draws me more than just the blade having unfinished flats. Daniel Winkler's period work is of course an example of such entire packaging. With newer makers, I find the work of Rick Marchand/Wildertools and some of Scott Roush/Big Rock Forge to have that quality.

    Examples of Rick Marchand:





    Scott Roush's:

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapevine View Post
    I think for me, this quote about the entire package reflecting the brut de forge characteristic is what usually draws me more than just the blade having unfinished flats. Daniel Winkler's period work is of course an example of such entire packaging. With newer makers, I find the work of Rick Marchand/Wildertools and some of Scott Roush/Big Rock Forge to have that quality.

    Examples of Rick Marchand:





    Scott Roush's:
    It's also my opinion that "Brut de Forge" and the any number of other treatments makers used to create alternative finishes or distressing of blades are different design elements.
    Of the above, the Scott Roush is the only one I would classify as "Brut de Forge". I believe as MANY knifemakers have started utilizing processes to provide these alternative finishes, "Brut de Forge" has taken on a very broad and perhaps incorrect meaning. It's my understanding that "Brute ds Forge" is simply when
    forging/hammer marks are left in a forged blade as opposed to being removed during the finishing process.
    Last edited by Kevin Jones; 09-30-2012 at 10:21 AM.

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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpByCoop View Post
    Three pages and not one Joe Keeslar mention? I though he pioneered the term AND the look.

    Coop
    You are right Jim, moreover in Atlanta next year I should get back a small " Brut de forge "
    Use a knife, it's also to share a moment with his creator....

    My Pictures on Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/NorbertBPhotos

  12. #52
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    I love Mr. Keeslar's work, the example Coop posted may not be my favorite, however he is "Brute De Forge".

    Allot of great examples and work posted here.

    Steve
    --------
    Potomac Forge
    W.F. Moran Jr. Museum & Foundation
    Last edited by Steve Nuckels; 10-02-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  13. #53
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    I had the Brut de Forge look on most of my knives. Then ran into a problem with regard to my hard use bush knives. During destruction testing, I noticed that the blades were breaking at the forgemarks. That's not too surprising as the rough surface acted much like the scores along and x-acto blade. What I didn't count on was the added stress risers that formed during heat treat. I was very disappointed as I really love the look. It was still important for me to have that rustic, "antiqued" look, so I began to experiment with etched finishes. These finishes could be applied AFTER heat treat and tested significantly better than the blades HT'd in a rough state. I still leave forgemarks on blades that just "ask for it" but the majority of the finishes you see coming from me, are a combination of etching, sanding and heat treat scale.

    Etching and sanding...



    Forge marks...



    A combination of both...
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin



    Rick Marchand
    ABS Apprentice Smith
    www.wildertools.com
    rickmarchand@wildertools.com
    Come visit me at Blade Show 2014. Table 19-O

  14. #54
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    Rick some wonderful pieces

    Joe Paranee
    JParanee@aol.com
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    R.I.P. Phill Hartsfield

  15. #55
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    THis Blade !!!!!!

    The same with no "brut de forge"
    Use a knife, it's also to share a moment with his creator....

    My Pictures on Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/NorbertBPhotos

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpByCoop View Post
    Three pages and not one Joe Keeslar mention? I though he pioneered the term AND the look.

    Coop
    No disrespect meant to Joe whose work in both bladesmithing as well as gun building I have long admired. While he pioneered the term the look was being done by smith's who were heavy into the frontier re-enacting/buckskinning scene as far back at least to the early 1950's. Joe of course has a background in that genre via his gun building as wells as knives from as far back as the early 1960's.
    Some of the best smith's building period pieces with the look are little known outside the frontier re-enacting community - Joe as well Dan Winkler are two of the very few who have successfully "crossed over" into the mainstream knife collecting community. Some of the best makers who are little known outside of the frontier re-enacting community are Joe Seabolt, Glen Mock, and the House Brothers in particular Herschel who almost single handedly began a whole new school of gun building and knife/hawk making known as the Woodbury school, that incorporates the aged Brut de forge look.
    Last edited by Wild Rose; 10-02-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
    One area where the brut-de-forge finish looks ever so right is on period pieces such as this warhawk, which would look almost absurd with bright shiny steel:
    With all due respect to you Roger as well as to Jon and other makers of period pieces with the aged look (including myself), but the fact is that the vast majority of original Frontier period pieces, whether knives, tomahawks, or war clubs were made with polished blades and not forge finished or pre-aged, which came with time and use.
    There are forge finished originals, especially in the SW where the local Spanish blacksmith's had/have something of a history of forge finishing knives and other sharp instruments, and those pieces most often made by frontiersman/farmers/ranchers with low skills, but by far the vast majority of American Frontier period knives, whether they be Bowies or the various trade knives which included scalpers, case knives, and butcher knives (the latter three were by far the most common knives used by anyone on the frontier) as well as tomahawks and axes, they were ground and polished not left forge finished. The forged/aged look is by far more common today than in the 18th/19th Centuries. There's a good market and high interest in some quarters though for the look today and that's what drives most makers to produce such pieces, but if you want to make/own a replica of a common frontier period piece than it should be forged/ground smooth and polished not left "rough" at all.

    and FWIW my intent is NOT to step on anyone's toes with these last two posts........
    Last edited by Wild Rose; 10-02-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  18. #58
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    a few brut de forge knives by mi amigo the late Gib Guignard aka Cactus Forge:













    and a trio of our collaboration pieces with the aged Brut de forge look






  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Rose View Post
    With all due respect to you Roger as well as to Jon and other makers of period pieces with the aged look (including myself), but the fact is that the vast majority of original Frontier period pieces, whether knives, tomahawks, or war clubs were made with polished blades and not forge finished or pre-aged, which came with time and use.
    I was trying to explain that at a War of 1812 reenactment I was demonstrating at. The reenactors looked at me like I was crazy. I asked if they thought that these wares started out pre-aged from the makers of the time and they were convinced that they did. A few folks got downright angry that I indirectly criticized their persona's accoutrements.

    That was another reason I began to shy away from the typical "brut de forge" look and have been dabbling in a "layered" aged look. I almost take the piece to high finish before adding years to it. I like the character brought out by the look and imagining how the blade would wear from decades of use. It's like watching the piece age through the window of a time machine. I've only scratched the surface of this genre and am enjoying the process. Folks like Daniel W., Chuck B., Tai, Tim L. and John C. inspire me to find my own way to fit in, as they all have such distinct styles.

    Rick
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin



    Rick Marchand
    ABS Apprentice Smith
    www.wildertools.com
    rickmarchand@wildertools.com
    Come visit me at Blade Show 2014. Table 19-O

  20. #60
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    I like this look on Joe Humphrey's work. I think it comes down to individual taste, but somewhere deep down, I think we all think about how cool it would be to be like one of those frontiersmen or a ranger in the French and Indian war (think Darby's rangers).

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