What the heck is going on in Benghazi?

[timcsaw]

The CIA has released a statement saying that no one in the CIA told the two guys at the CIA annex not to go to the aid of the Consulate.

I can believe that... no one in the CIA said stand down.

We have a number of aspects concerning this whole cluster "fiasco" in play here. At least 3 major ones so far;
- What happened to the support that should have existed PRIOR to this terrorist attack and who made the calls (Hillary, for one, has stood up, as well she should... good for her .)? I want the additional names.
- What happened to any available support DURING the attack? I want names.
- Finally, who was behind the cover-up story about the movie crap? I want names.

IMO, Hillary should be gone along with a few who are closer to the blood. If military men made some bad calls during the attack, see ya'... If some civies at State or the White House influenced those bad calls or didn't act as advised, see ya'... who ever hatched the "movie cover-up" (and I expect that this little nugget goes higher up than any of the other 2), see ya' with hand cuffs.

[akadave2]

I can believe that... no one in the CIA said stand down.

We have a number of aspects concerning this whole cluster "fiasco" in play here. At least 3 major ones so far;
- What happened to the support that should have existed PRIOR to this terrorist attack and who made the calls (Hillary, for one, has stood up, as well she should... good for her .)? I want the additional names.
- What happened to any available support DURING the attack? I want names.
- Finally, who was behind the cover-up story about the movie crap? I want names.

IMO, Hillary should be gone along with a few who are closer to the blood. If military men made some bad calls during the attack, see ya'... If some civies at State or the White House influenced those bad calls or didn't act as advised, see ya'... who ever hatched the "movie cover-up" (and I expect that this little nugget goes higher up than any of the other 2), see ya' with hand cuffs.

Hillary was probably instructed to step up and take the hit because of the election. Besides, the buck stops with the CIC, and the crap rolls downhill from there. Regardless of whether or not the two CIA guys were or were not told to stand down. What was 2 people going to do against 70 or so? Bottom line is the security was not there because of political reasons not tactical, or military or resource availability. POTUS stepped in it. Now he needs to scrape it off and fess up. That would restore any respect I had for him

[quietmike]

Deleted

[Codger_64]

I hate this guy with a passion, but this interview will explain to those who have no clue how the chain of information and command works. The person interviewed knows his stuff.

[akadave2]

I hate this guy with a passion, but this interview will explain to those who have no clue how the chain of information and command works. The person interviewed knows his stuff.

Wow! Thats pretty enlightening!

[Codger_64]

Wow! Thats pretty enlightening!

Yeah, and it makes the point that the emails aren't the smoking gun in who-knew-what-when-in-the-zoo. POTUS had the information available in real time.

[timcsaw]

I wish Rush would just shut up and let "Doug" talk... "Doug" has his poop in a pile.

[Codger_64]

I wish Rush would just shut up and let "Doug" talk... "Doug" has his poop in a pile.

My feelings exactly. Nonetheless, I found it informative and very close to what I had expected to be the truth about situation room communications. Tim, have you ever heard of a SEAL or other SF operator on the ground using a laser designator when there wasn't a asset in the air to respond?

[Codger_64]

Oh, and then there are the 20,000 missing manpads. Forget that I mentioned that though.

[timcsaw]

My feelings exactly. Nonetheless, I found it informative and very close to what I had expected to be the truth about situation room communications. Tim, have you ever heard of a SEAL or other SF operator on the ground using a laser designator when there wasn't a asset in the air to respond?

Nope... no asset, you're just wasting battery and probably exposing your self. You don't mark target and just hope guns come along to sync to you.

[jdm61]

Panetta said today that everyone is doing the "Monday morning quarterback" thing. Funny, I thought that is what ALWAYS happens when someone in gummint screws the pooch like this. The problem with this one is that because Obama has told us that he likes to micromanage things like this (think the Bin Laden hit) it might be tough to find some middle management scapegoat to take one for the team.

[Nordic Viking]

I don't know, boys. I have to go with those military decisions that are made with the input from top level military men instead of tactics suggested by posters on just one of many sub-forums of a larger knife forum.

AFAIK, the Accountability Review Board is investigating this mess. Some members here should expect subpoenas to testify in front of them, lest this whole thing becomes another Obama cover up.

[Codger_64]

Panetta's statements have a sparkle of irony in them given that he is the former CIA Director and the Consulate and safe house (called Annex) in Bengazi were CIA controlled and manned facilities.

And in fact they did have real time information via direct comms with professional agents on site and live video feed from both the orbiting drones and from the on-site security cameras. How much more intel does one need?

And they did finally put military boots on the ground, another FUBAR, when the attack was four hours old, the force arriving at the airport and finding themselves stranded because someone dropped the ball and there was no transportation awaiting them. Obviously then no vehicles were deployed to support their mission.

An American Quick Reaction Force sent from Tripoli had arrived at the Benghazi airport at 2 a.m. (four hours after the initial attack on the consulate) and was delayed for 45 minutes at the airport because they could not at first get transportation, allegedly due to confusion among Libyan militias who were supposed to escort them to the annex, according to Benghazi sources.

The Americans defending from the roof of the Annex were killed by mortar fire at approx. 4:00 A.M. local time. Since when did our military depend on indig militias for transportation to the site of an attack on U.S. soil?

There is no doubt that Panetta and others in the administration's chain of command don't like having their actions, inactions and roles in this incident examined in minute detail after the fact. But they one and all invited intense scrutiny with their own words early on regarding "I just didn't know", "we had no information". Is it "Monday morning quarterbacking"? It would have been nice to have disected the events and roles the day before the "game", but that never happens except in the action/response playbooks worked out well in advance of events like this regarding the deployment and use of those rapid response troops stationed a mere 500 miles away.

Bottom line is that the entire situation is shaping up to be a huge red flag pointing to the incompetence of the Commander In Chief, his advisors and his chosen cabinet members. I cannot imagine that the members of Congress investigating this feel any different. And neither should citizens who bother to pay attention to this on the eve of the election.

[Codger_64]

AFAIK, the Accountability Review Board is investigating this mess. Some members here should expect subpoenas to testify in front of them, lest this whole thing becomes another Obama cover up.

Your subpoena is probably in the mail today.

[Noctis3880]

Nope... no asset, you're just wasting battery and probably exposing your self. You don't mark target and just hope guns come along to sync to you.

That's just damning isn't it? I figure a laser designator would stick out like a sore thumb on something like IR or night vision(something should be able to see it even if the naked eye can't) and get you a shiny new sniper bullet between the eyes or a rocket down your throat.

But then again, I suspect even in light of these facts, Obama would likely pass the congressional investigation off as "politicizing", he'll exercise "executive privilege" again, the media will belt feed people the excuses, and this will never see the light of day.

[Nordic Viking]

Your subpoena is probably in the mail today.

Already received it, I'm going over old Harrison Ford movies, where he plays Jack Ryan, as the main basis for my evidence. Hope I don't mix in some Han Solo quotes by mistake [holdsthumbs]

[Codger_64]

Already received it, I'm going over old Harrison Ford movies, where he plays Jack Ryan, as the main basis for my evidence. Hope I don't mix in some Han Solo quotes by mistake [holdsthumbs]

You could use some Biden quotes. They would likely be more fitting. Like his words to Charles Woods, father of Tyrone Woods who was killed in the attack, during a memorial service for his son.

the Vice President approached his family and asked, 'Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?'

A very appropriate, sincere and heart-warming condolence and statement of gratitude from a Senior U.S. Statesman, don't you agree?

[timcsaw]

That's just damning isn't it? I figure a laser designator would stick out like a sore thumb on something like IR or night vision(something should be able to see it even if the naked eye can't) and get you a shiny new sniper bullet between the eyes or a rocket down your throat.

But then again, I suspect even in light of these facts, Obama would likely pass the congressional investigation off as "politicizing", he'll exercise "executive privilege" again, the media will belt feed people the excuses, and this will never see the light of day.

Probably had some sort of LLDR which isn't an "always on" type laser... sends pulses, but if the bad guys have the right kit, they can see it's origination. Problem is, if you can see the painted target through the LLDR device, the target can see you. Bad guys probably knew where our guy was and even though they wouldn't have seen any indication that they were marked, they'd be able to see the man on the roof with the LLDR if they knew where he was. Point is, you wouldn't expose yourself to use an LLDR unless you already knew you had guns on station to do something with it. I'm not sure if Specter was there, but the drone was and I suspect that it was armed. They are not as precise as the 130, so perhaps that's why they didn't shoot into a residential area with it. Heck, they could have at least sent down some fast movers from Italy to fly over at tree-top to try to keep the bad guys heads down until spooky got there or more boots showed up... but then there is the problem of those manpads. This was "danger-close" for any available air asset but an AC130 would have been the next best thing to a couple gun ships.

These guys were skrewed the moment they show'd up in Benghazi to find Libyans providing security for them. As "Doug" explained to Rush, POTUS HAD to know what was going on (in some detail) within minutes of the SHTF, and what he said/did would be interesting to know. All this krap about "too much intel coming in" is bull... the military has plans in place for just such situations (X10) and know what to do. Intel is disseminated to the top by long standing procedures and someone "at the top" made some bad calls IMO. If Obama had been in Benghazi, I'll bet some shoot orders would have been called in by him. But Obama was busy picking out a tie for his big day with JZ and Co.

[lizardman_u]

I read an interesting take, that the reason the president (lower case intentional) didn't allow intervention and called a team to "Stand Down" was that to take action would deflate that lie that since "Bin Ladin was dead Al Queda no longer exists".

Personally I hope that he and his regime face criminal charges of treason for their roll in this and other anti-American deeds they have accomplished in their term, and I hope he gets the prescribed sentence for his treason which if the treason occurs in time of war the punishment is death.

Dave

[timcsaw]

I read an interesting take, that the reason the president (lower case intentional) didn't allow intervention and called a team to "Stand Down" was that to take action would deflate that lie that since "Bin Ladin was dead Al Queda no longer exists"....

Dave

This has been my contention from day one and my opening post lays this out. Obama and the Dems had just been bragging for days at the Democratic convention about "we killed Osama" and how al Qaeda was decimated and on the run... we were "winning" the war on terrorism thanks to Obama and the Democrats... Oops... a couple days later 4 Americans are killed in a terrorist attack sooooooooo..... the "story" will be, it really wasn't a "terrorist attack" it was a spontaneous "event" which came out of a bunch of mob rioters who were angry about a movie... yea, that sounds better than a straight up "terrorist attack". Where's Susan Rice? Let's get her onto all the talk shows to push the "movie bull"... Where's Carney? Let's get him into a news briefing to push the "movie bull"... Hey, lets get Obama to push the "movie bull" to the UN during his speech in front of them... and on and on and on.

It's more than shameful.