Chris Reeve's no-flick policy

[severedthumbs]

Get a Strider you can flick them all day and still have a warranty.

[VolundoftheForge]

Get a Strider you can flick them all day and still have a warranty.

I just traded my SMF for a BNIB Umnum, which this thread concerns. I tend to be the worrying type.

[Ernie1980]

I think it just comes down to common sense. If the way you are opening the knife feels like abuse, it probably is. If the way you are opening it feels controlled, you should be fine. Compare it to slamming a car door. If you slam it so hard you are afraid the window will break, you are abusing the door. If you give it a good firm push so it closes soundly, you are fine.

Great analogy

[crom]

I'm with Noodle, if I am going to pay close to $400 for a knife it better be flicka-able. There's flicking and there's wrist snapping unnecessary violent opening. It better be able to handle the flick opening.

[Hadji Flip Me Over]

Other, cheaper knives can handle it, so why wouldn't a lauded CRK knife be able to do the same?

[00ChevyScott]

Other, cheaper knives can handle it, so why wouldn't a lauded CRK knife be able to do the same?

Hype and fanboyism. I love my Umnumzaan, but I do think the "no flicking" thing is really crappy. Just flicking open my Umnum feels like it's gonna ruin something so I don't do it.

[strick284]

Don't do it, and be careful opening and closing your sebby too many times too; that can give the effects of flicking and Chris will still consider it abuse.

Is this guy serious? You have to open and close the knife to use it. Simply using the knife too often can void the warranty??? You might as well never take the sucker out of the box.

[RemyKaze]

Is this guy serious? You have to open and close the knife to use it. Simply using the knife too often can void the warranty??? You might as well never take the sucker out of the box.

Or waste your money on a knife the company is scared will break if flicked or opened too much. LOL.

[Toxie]

I think it just comes down to common sense. If the way you are opening the knife feels like abuse, it probably is. If the way you are opening it feels controlled, you should be fine. Compare it to slamming a car door. If you slam it so hard you are afraid the window will break, you are abusing the door. If you give it a good firm push so it closes soundly, you are fine.

Yeah, expcet this is a bit different.
It's like POrche saying that pushing the door shut is abuse, that you should gently latch the door shut and then hold the handle up to completely latch the door, and that pushing the door hard enough to latch without "guiding it the whole way with your hand" is "abuse".

The CRK stance on flicking gets a lot of attention, with some people cracking jokes that the big bad expensive knives can't handle a couple of flicks. Most of my collection is now CRK and I can tell you that they are by far the most robust knives that I have owned.

Then you probably don't own very many "robust" knives, because I can flick my Benchmades and Cold Steels all day, and the lock dont get destroyed. Perhaps Ti is just a really poor lock choice, or CRK knives are light duty users.

But any knife will develop issues when that kind of force is applied to the parts of the knife over and over again.

Thats complete bullcrap, and anyone else with a knife knows that. Plenty of other lock styles out there, and they don't exhibit such problems. I've got a knife Ive been flipping open for YEARS and suffered no ill effects (Benchmade Osbourne).

Chris isn't saying the knives will fall apart if you flick it open once. He's saying take care of your knives and they will take care of you. If you do abuse your knives in any way, be prepared to live with any issues that arise; the maker is not responsible for those.

Just IMHO (and I'm sure it'll be unpopular) but that lock is just a light-duty lock, and flipping a $400 "robust" knife open shouldn't hurt it. I would certainly never buy a knife with such a design, as there are plenty of other great knives out there that CAN that such "abuse" lol.

[Planterz]

I have all the respect in the world for Chris Reeve, his company, and what they've done to benefit the knife industry. But frankly I think they need to get with the times and adopt the improvements other makers/manufacturers have made to Reeve's framelock in the past 25 or so years. Namely, the Hinderer lock stabilizer, and the adjustable. replaceable lockbar insert. "Abuse" or not, it seems silly to me that a $400 knife can prematurely wear out from what other companies would consider "normal" use.

[A.Dragg]

I've looked into this quite a bit and I'm fairly certain what we think of as "flicking" is not what CRK is talking about. They're talking about the stupid n00bish maneuver of swinging the blade out and flicking your wrist so the knife violently thwacks open. If you're using little to no wrist action and are just flinging the blade out in a controlled manner with your thumb, then you're not abusing the knife. If you're flicking it out with all your mite and even adding a little wrist so it cracks open, then maybe that's abuse, but it's just like FoldersForever said, if it feels like abuse, then it probably is. If you know how to pop the blade open in a firm but gentle manner using only your thumb, then the knife and the guys at CRK inspecting the knife are never going to know the difference, especially if you're not using much more force than required to get the blade to swing far enough to lock.

I guess it's maybe a little debatable that your shouldn't "flick" a Sebenza at all, but what CRK is talking about is violently wrist snapping the blade open, and if you know how to simply flick it open with only reasonable force and using no wrist action or sudden jerking motions then you're fine. That's not what CRK is constituting as abuse (because it's not abuse and the knife doesn't even know the difference between that and a firm "normal" opening). However, I don't believe the Umnumzaan is included in this at all. I thought that's the reason CRK came out with a tougher knife with shock absorbing polyurethane O-rings, solid thumb studs as the stop pin, and a super strong ceramic lock interface. If you push directly up on the thumb stud, which is the correct way to open an Umnumzaan, then the blade is going to pop over most of the way on it's own anyway. Just push out a little more deliberately and it will pop right open (if it's a broken in knife with a properly tuned pivot), one of the easiest knives ever to gently "flick" open with your minimal thumb pressure, and you won't feel at all like you've abused the knife.

The reason CRK will void the warranty on certain people who have "flicked" their knives is because those people actually did the wrist snapping abusive opening and they can actually see evidence on the knife that it has been handled incorrectly and abusively. If you simply use the smoothness of the knife to it's advantage and pop the blade open with your thumb, it will not feel abusive and it will leave no evidence or indications of abuse (aside from any mild wear that even the most gentle possible opening of the knife would leave). CRK is never even going to know if you gently thumb-flick your knife open if you're doing it correctly and respectful of the knife. Just don't abuse the knife. If your knife is going to be damaged or show premature wear because of the way you're handling it, then you're doing it wrong.

[A.Dragg]

Hype and fanboyism. I love my Umnumzaan, but I do think the "no flicking" thing is really crappy. Just flicking open my Umnum feels like it's gonna ruin something so I don't do it.

If you're just controllably popping it open with your thumb and not snapping it with your wrist, then your Zaan will be just fine. The ceramic lock face ball makes a pretty loud and sharp crack when it meets the steel, and does kind of sound like it might be bad for the knife, but that's just the way the knife is. It sounds and feels like the ceramic ball is taking the punishment and is getting whacked into the steel, but it's actually solid steel thumb studs meeting with a large contact area of Ti and even some poly O-rings to help absorb the impact. The ceramic ball just pops over once the blade is open and makes kind of a loud clack. It's not going to ruin your knife or hurt it at all.

[red mag]

I like the common sense post.
The Umnumzaan is a folding cutting tool.
In my book opening the knife with the stud is fast enough.
Superiority comes to my mind.
It correlates with Chris' motto: "Think twice, cut once"
red mag

[Jaytaylor]

What about the facts?

How many often do we see threads here with "my CRK knife X is knackered due to flicking open" ????

Not that I go out of my way searching but I've seen none thus far.......

[VolundoftheForge]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start a whole thing. I'd heard it could be considered abuse so I wanted to know the facts before I decided to keep it or not.

[Nullity]

The whole issue of flicking knives has gotten a little away from reality! No, it is not a sin to flick a Sebenza but it is not something we recommend.

Flicking a knife is an activity that has the potential to damage the whole lock mechanism. It causes the parts to slam together, creating unnecessary wear. Flicking the blade open once in a while it is not a problem – in fact, we recommend it as part of the assembly process. It is the compulsive, continuous snapping open of the blade that is a problem; the spending an afternoon in front of the television and flicking-your-knife-open-breaking-the-lock-closing-it-flicking-it-open-again for the duration of a football game, or movie or whatever, and doing it every week.

This is as true for Sebenzas as it is for any other knife – or any hinged mechanism with a stop and a lock. Of all the knives on the market, the Sebenza is best able to withstand flicking because the size of the stop pin/sleeve, and the configuration of the pivot bearing and bearing surface, cause the energy to disperse over a large area.

Here is an analogy that illustrates what we are trying to say:
A man owns a Porsche – it is a well-built car and the whole vehicle has a “bank vault” feel to it. He particularly likes the sound of the doors closing – thunk. To work off his obsessive frustrations about life at large, this man spends hours and hours just opening and closing the door. Eventually the hinges wobble and the doors whistle when he is driving because they don’t close securely any longer. Do you suppose Porsche will replace the doors happily and at no charge?

So in summary, we do not advocate flicking knives at all – it is not in the best interest of the knife – any knife.

Anne

One of the things we are still working on is an Umnumzaan dismantle and cleaning kit with instructions. This will include the tools with which to undo the pivot mechanism and some of the low strength Loctite that we use to ensure the pivot does not loosen accidentally. I guess you guys are just too eager to take things apart!

There has been endless discussion over the "flicking a Sebenza voids the warranty" (I presume you mean flicking not flipping as in "flip this house"!).
A search will get you lots of information. The fact of it is that it is the endless, repetitive flicking that will cause damage to your knife, not just the once in a while instance.

The Umnumzaan opens in the same way as the Sebenza opens with a sweeping, sideways motion on the side of the thumblug. This is usually the remedy for painful thumb but, if the blade is too tight, send it back so we can check it out.

Enjoy your Umnumz!!

Anne

I gave this one to Chris and here is his reply:

The handle must be assembled first and both screws tightend. Just comfortably tight (this applied to all the screws!). The blade assembly (blade, pivot and 2 bronze washers) is then inserted between the handle slabs. If it will not go in, you do not have it assembled correctly. Do not loosen the handle screws off. Once the blade assembly is in the handles, line up the pivot hole and insert the pin. The allen wrench can help you line this up. Tighten the screw into the pin. Flick the knife open once and you are ready to go. This is the only time flicking is advised!

Anne

Here are some facts.

[tvhaugen]

From Chris Reeve himself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hztV6nTMKqY

[VolundoftheForge]

Here are some facts.

Thanks.

[Free2game]

I have all the respect in the world for Chris Reeve, his company, and what they've done to benefit the knife industry. But frankly I think they need to get with the times and adopt the improvements other makers/manufacturers have made to Reeve's framelock in the past 25 or so years. Namely, the Hinderer lock stabilizer, and the adjustable. replaceable lockbar insert. "Abuse" or not, it seems silly to me that a $400 knife can prematurely wear out from what other companies would consider "normal" use.

Are frame locks even that strong by today's standards period? It's steel on a softer material and one that can bend fairly easily compared to steel. Something like an axis lock for example is steel on steel on steel on steel between the blade, liner, locking pin, and stop pin.

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

Part of the fancy folder conundrum. Doing it as presented in the video linked above...that is silly kid stuff.