Legal Carry in Los Angeles

[James White]

Thank you very much for the reply. I'm still left in the dark over the legal definitions however.

According to the laws I posted, if I interpretted them correctly, I couldn't conceal carry any folder and if I had it in plain sight, it couldn't be 3 inches or over. Now taking into account the worst cops I could run into, they could always say I had any folder concealed and take me to jail because of it. I want people's interpretations of the law I posted more than anything and whether I'm allowed to carry a 4" folder because of it.

The reason I'm adamant on the 4" is that I can get the one I'm looking at currently for $20 while the 3" would be $45 on its regular price.

Once again, thank you for the replies and I know I seem pushy but it's something I want complete peace with before I begin to carry it.

[XiaolongJackson]

At this moment, I was looking into the Recon Series from Cold Steel. A big reason for this knife will be potential self defense, so that's why the 4" blade was important to me.

I don't live in the best area to begin with, and I've had more than one cop question me for walking in other neighborhoods that were deemed 'too good' for my appearance. Combine that with one of them using the "I smell weed" excuse(even though I've never been a smoker in my life) to search me, I'm a bit of a skeptic and I'd prefer if the law was 100% on my side. I'd rather have this under my control than hope that I won't run into another in my life.

Legality of the knife isn't really the issue here. I suggest reading through this before you go through with your decision: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html The last item on that list is the most important. If you do decide to carry a knife for self defense after reading that, don't let the cops know that it's for self defense, but if cops like to hassle you for being colored you'd be better off without a knife. Maybe take up some Krav Maga or something.

[Los Angeles]

As long as it's 3" or under anything would be fine, no particular recommendations. However, you should stay away from flippers/assisted knives if you plan on edcing it around LA.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but flippers and assisted knives are fine. And length limit only applies to fixed blades (which must be open carry, btw.) and even that rule has a HUGE exception for travelling to/from work or recreation that requires a bigger knife.

I've shown my 5.5" Double edged assisted darrel ralph to a cop in L.A. and the guy just admired it and handed it right back.

Rules for EDC are as follows:

Switchblade or Balisong - No carry.
Fixed - 3" or less, open carry only.
Folder - any size concealed carry only. (clipping it to your pocket and wearing a shirt or jacket that is long enough to cover the clip is perfectly legal.

[killgar]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but flippers and assisted knives are fine. And length limit only applies to fixed blades (which must be open carry, btw.) and even that rule has a HUGE exception for travelling to/from work or recreation that requires a bigger knife.

I've shown my 5.5" Double edged assisted darrel ralph to a cop in L.A. and the guy just admired it and handed it right back.

Rules for EDC are as follows:

Switchblade or Balisong - No carry.
Fixed - 3" or less, open carry only.
Folder - any size concealed carry only. (clipping it to your pocket and wearing a shirt or jacket that is long enough to cover the clip is perfectly legal.

Where are you getting your information from? Los Angeles knife laws are available online for everyone to read and Mr. White quoted those laws in his opening post.

As far as your experience with that ONE cop, I'd say you were lucky, either the cop was really cool and gave you a break or he didn't know the law, which is not uncommon. Or maybe you had a lawful exemption (work, recreational). If you read the Los Angeles knife laws that Mr. White provided in his opening post (they are the correct and current statutes), it specifically says that it's illegal to carry in plain view "any knife" with a blade 3 inches long or longer, not just fixed-blades. I'm quite confident that a folding knife qualifies as a "knife".

While you were lucky in your experience with that cop, I wouldn't suggest that people rely on luck and wager their freedom. I know I wouldn't. And while there are exceptions to the length limits (work related, outdoor activities like camping, etc), if you can't prove that you were carrying the knife for work related reasons or that you were on your way to a camping trip etc, you could be vulnerable to arrest.

[XiaolongJackson]

I don't know where you're getting your information, but flippers and assisted knives are fine.

The reason for that is because non-knife people(including most cops) generally can't make the distinction between assisted knives and automatics. All they see is you pressing a button and a knife popping out and according to a few people who ran into problems for having Leeks it's not worth the trouble.

[Los Angeles]

I've read every law, in depth, from city to county to state. I stand by my interpretation and any "hedging" of my interpretation by others (like nothing over 3" or no spring assist) is behaving no better than the scared sheeple who want to infringe our rights.

My interpretation is correct.

You don't even need google, a quick search right here on blade forums provides an L.E.O. (our very own MORIMOTOM) giving us the breakdown several times:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-in-L-A-County

[James White]

Legality of the knife isn't really the issue here. I suggest reading through this before you go through with your decision: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html The last item on that list is the most important. If you do decide to carry a knife for self defense after reading that, don't let the cops know that it's for self defense, but if cops like to hassle you for being colored you'd be better off without a knife. Maybe take up some Krav Maga or something.

I don't want to come off as arrogant, but I'm a 6 foot tall boxer who's been in plenty of altercations growing up. If for any reason I ever used my knife for self defense, you can rest assured that it would be my absolute last resort. I want to carry one because it might save my life and I have a constitutional right to carry one. Now whether that means I need to cut a cable/seatbelt or fight off an attacker that's another story. But I repeat, I wouldn't carry a blade around with the hopes of stabbing someone, that's simply not the case for me. I'm also seasoned enough to know that a fight wouldn't be like the movies and life experience makes me hypersensitive to anyone who is within 10 feet of me.

I've read every law, in depth, from city to county to state. I stand by my interpretation and any "hedging" of my interpretation by others (like nothing over 3" or no spring assist) is behaving no better than the scared sheeple who want to infringe our rights.

My interpretation is correct.

You don't even need google, a quick search right here on blade forums provides an L.E.O. (our very own MORIMOTOM) giving us the breakdown several times:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-in-L-A-County

My question is on whether 55.01 makes it illegal to conceal carry any weapon in los angeles. I posted it in the OP, would you care to look at it for me? Most of those threads you posted are awfully old, that stance could no longer be valid. At least this way, the questions that are answered here will be availble to all that can google search, it'll make my inquiry worth something in the end.

To sum it up, I've been in contact with a few attorneys and I'm waiting for them to get back to me. Clearly I want as much free legal advice possible so I've essentially promised the one that helps me the most that he'll be representing me if I'm ever in need. Hopefully I get some clarification soon. Thank you all again.

[killgar]

I've read every law, in depth, from city to county to state. I stand by my interpretation and any "hedging" of my interpretation by others (like nothing over 3" or no spring assist) is behaving no better than the scared sheeple who want to infringe our rights.

My interpretation is correct.

You don't even need google, a quick search right here on blade forums provides an L.E.O. (our very own MORIMOTOM) giving us the breakdown several times:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ht=Los+Angeles

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...-in-L-A-County

I believe in exercising my rights under the law. But I'm not going to violate the law and go to jail just to prove that I'm not a "sheeple". I've been to jail, it's no fun. And if you are in violation of the law, the cops and prosecuter aren't going to be impressed by your passionate views on knife rights. You can preach to your cell mates about the importance of not being "scared sheeple".

I regularly advise people on this forum to read the law for themselves, make up their own mind, and if necessary consult an attorney. I wouldn't wager my freedom and future on the legal advice of a total stranger on the internet. And with all respect to Mr. Morimotom, I wouldn't wager my freedom on his word either, even cops can get the law wrong, and often do. And after all, no one on this forum is going to do the jail time for someone else, or pay their legal expenses, if the legal advice they give someone here turns out to be wrong.

Unfortunately there are no garuntees. Even lawyers can be wrong. Ask ten lawyers the same question and you might get ten different answers. And even if you are in total compliance with the law, it's still possible to be arrested. Some cops have nasty attitudes, and many simply don't know the law, and a person can spend days in jail waiting for the matter to get sorted out. I say, people should make the best informed decision they can and limit their risk as much as is reasonably possible, because it's their ass on the line. I openly carry a fixed-blade down here in San Diego, it's legal here, and I've never had any trouble as a result, not even when cops have seen it. But that doesn't mean some cop won't give me a hassle some day, maybe even arrest me unjustly. This is the level of risk I have chosen to accept based on my knowledge of the law and my desire to satisfy my personal knife needs.

[XiaolongJackson]

I don't want to come off as arrogant, but I'm a 6 foot tall boxer who's been in plenty of altercations growing up. If for any reason I ever used my knife for self defense, you can rest assured that it would be my absolute last resort. I want to carry one because it might save my life and I have a constitutional right to carry one. Now whether that means I need to cut a cable/seatbelt or fight off an attacker that's another story. But I repeat, I wouldn't carry a blade around with the hopes of stabbing someone, that's simply not the case for me. I'm also seasoned enough to know that a fight wouldn't be like the movies and life experience makes me hypersensitive to anyone who is within 10 feet of me.

That's reassuring. Generally, most people who are looking into getting a knife for self defense aren't aware of these things. In any case, do you live in a particularly rough place? I've had a few friends from South Central tell me that they were told by cops to carry weapons around with them after they were searched and found to have no weapons on them. Of course, outside of the types of places that white people avoid, any type of locking folder, especially a 4" one, can most likely get you in trouble, whether it's legal or not.

[James White]

That's reassuring. Generally, most people who are looking into getting a knife for self defense aren't aware of these things. In any case, do you live in a particularly rough place? I've had a few friends from South Central tell me that they were told by cops to carry weapons around with them after they were searched and found to have no weapons on them. Of course, outside of the types of places that white people avoid, any type of locking folder, especially a 4" one, can most likely get you in trouble, whether it's legal or not.

I frequent downtown LA much of my time for work etc.

I do understand that I could get in some problems with police officers, but what I want to know is whether I'm legally allowed to carry it. It would be inconvenient to spend a day or two in jail fighting this, but as long as I could, and win, that's what I care about.

I asked the last user to take a look at section 55.01 that I posted in the OP to give me his opinion on that, but this thread has been relatively dead in the last 3 days.

Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated.

[Los Angeles]

My question is on whether 55.01 makes it illegal to conceal carry any weapon in los angeles. I posted it in the OP, would you care to look at it for me? Most of those threads you posted are awfully old, that stance could no longer be valid. At least this way, the questions that are answered here will be availble to all that can google search, it'll make my inquiry worth something in the end.

To sum it up, I've been in contact with a few attorneys and I'm waiting for them to get back to me. Clearly I want as much free legal advice possible so I've essentially promised the one that helps me the most that he'll be representing me if I'm ever in need. Hopefully I get some clarification soon. Thank you all again.

First, I am not a lawyer. So your mileage may vary.

To my knowledge, 55.01 has never been applied to knives. It specifically addresses firearms.

All the other items that could be used as weapons are addressed in other statutes. Local statutes are always a little tricky because of use of loose terms like "weapon". But in the case of LA and California in general, The law is much easier to read because when placed side-by-side they paint a very specific picture of what type of knives, what specific type of carry, and even what length of the knives are allowed in every situation. And then it's all relaxed by the "work or recreation" exception.

In general, compared to New York or Chicago, L.A. is a great place if you love your spring assisted tactical folders. Keep the clip covered, and you're good.

[TOM1960]

At this moment, I was looking into the Recon Series from Cold Steel. A big reason for this knife will be potential self defense, so that's why the 4" blade was important to me.



I don't live in the best area to begin with, and I've had more than one cop question me for walking in other neighborhoods that were deemed 'too good' for my appearance. Combine that with one of them using the "I smell weed" excuse(even though I've never been a smoker in my life) to search me, I'm a bit of a skeptic and I'd prefer if the law was 100% on my side. I'd rather have this under my control than hope that I won't run into another in my life.

Recon 1 is a good knife but a bit on the heavy side, compared to the "Voyager" series. That is why I chose a 4" "Voyager". Both series are excellent quality and razor sharp, right out of the box. Lynn Thompson stands behind his products 100%. Keep that knife fully concealed and you should not have any problems while carrying in public.

[krussadams]

I frequent downtown LA much of my time for work etc.

I do understand that I could get in some problems with police officers, but what I want to know is whether I'm legally allowed to carry it. It would be inconvenient to spend a day or two in jail fighting this, but as long as I could, and win, that's what I care about.

I asked the last user to take a look at section 55.01 that I posted in the OP to give me his opinion on that, but this thread has been relatively dead in the last 3 days.

Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated.

I've been lurking here a bit, just joined - and figured I'd add my two cents here as my inaugural post. Hope you all don't mind.

If you want to act out of an abundance of caution and follow the letter of the law(s), I would suggest that you go with a 2.99" or under for carry. That way, you can keep it clipped to your pocket (if folder) or in open carry (if fixed blade) - always readily accessible. Have a run-in with an a-hole cop? No worries - you are covered. Section 55.01 speaks only to concealed weapons (of any size), and 55.10 speaks to knives 3" or greater not concealed. Truth be told, if it's kept sharp, the length won't really matter when it's really needed as long as you know how to use it.

As others have mentioned, what goes further than any of this, though, is attitude. I've had my run-ins with the cops, but have never once been arrested. Even the time I had a gun handy. The reason was simple: I didn't give them a reason to be an a-hole. The gun incident I alluded to is a prime example: I was in Long Beach, in an area of town that is not exactly known for spawning pillars of the community. My young cousin and I were on the street a few houses down from a relative's house, parked in my car - waiting for this person to come home. We hadn't heard from them in more than a day, couldn't find them, were worried, so we camped out by their house to see if they were coming/going and to make sure they were safe. An older resident must have considered us suspicious, as they came out of their home, went to "look at sprinkler by the curb at the rear of my car" and went back inside. I recognized that act for what it was: they were getting my plate. Since I had my gun on me, I immediately unloaded it, threw the clip in the glove box and put the gun in the trunk through the back seat. Sure enough, a couple minutes later, LB's finest showed up and rapped on the window. After he asked what we were doing, he asked if we had any weapons - I immediately said I had an unloaded gun in the car. It concerned him to the point he called for backup - 4 more cars coming to his aid. We were manhandled out of the car, put in separate cars, questioned and then, once they found not a blemish on our records, we were both released. I even had a 4+" folder on me at that time - when he took it from me, he told me, "remind me to give this back to you if I happen to let you go." He kept my gun "as a favor" to me (rather than arresting me and giving me more problems), but said I could pick it up in a week or two downtown. Instead of arguing and going through the hassle, I went on my merry way - not going to miss my Glock 19 for a week or two. About 10 minutes after I got back home, there was a knock on the door. It was the officer who was dealing with me. He looked at me, stuck his hand out - holding my folder - and said, "I told you to remind me to give this to you." I took it and he went off to resume his duties.

Long story, I know. But I just wanted to really emphasize the moral of this thread: in the overwhelming majority of the cases, cops will act like a-holes because someone gives them a reason or an excuse to act like one. If they see you as a threat or a risk to themselves or others, you're in for it. Don't approach the situation negatively, and if they are approaching it that way...turn it around and make them comfortable.

Or, you can start growing your hair, wearing a dastar and you can probably get away with carrying a kirpan at all times in accordance with 55.10(c).

[killgar]

About 10 minutes after I got back home, there was a knock on the door. It was the officer who was dealing with me. He looked at me, stuck his hand out - holding my folder - and said, "I told you to remind me to give this to you." I took it and he went off to resume his duties.

Sounds like a very cool cop. I've had positive experiences with LEO's and I've had very negative experiences with LEO's, and I always prefer to hear about positive ones. Thanks for sharing your story.

I am wondering why they took the gun and if you got it back.

[TOM1960]

Sounds like a very cool cop. I've had positive experiences with LEO's and I've had very negative experiences with LEO's, and I always prefer to hear about positive ones. Thanks for sharing your story.

I am wondering why they took the gun and if you got it back.

He was damned lucky, as far as I am concerned. Here in MA, in order to simply possess the pistol, even in his own home, he would need a License To Carry, which is issued solely at the discretion of local police chiefs and only to "suitable persons". The chief has the right to yank it at any time, with or without good reason. If this happens, you have to surrender the pistol or take it out of state. Knives (or any other weapon) are frowned upon by LEOs here. That is why I am a big proponent of good concealment technique. LEOs here arrest first and let the courts sort it out, especially for weapons. All rifles and shotguns, and all ammunition (including spent cartridge cases and all ammunition components such as powder and bullets) requires a Firearms Identification Card (FID). Possession without the FID, even in one's own home, is a felony. People here have gone to jail for possessing a single round of ammuntion without an FID or LTC. More than one husband has had to bail his wife out of jail for ammo possession because she borrowed his vehicle and he left ammo in it, which was discovered when the wife got stopped for a traffic violation. Parents have had to bail out sons and daughters after they got stopped in the family car with ammo belonging to the parents. Very few LEOs here exercise any common sense. It's a knee-jerk reaction to the brainwashing that they had growing up (ie: only police and military should possess firearms, ammo and scary-looking knives, not civilians). Another factor is that many of the old-time LEOs have retired en masse throughout the state, replaced by aggressive young rookies who are eager to establish a name for themselves by racking up arrest statistics. Heck, even pepper spray / Mace requires an FID or LTC because it is considered to be ammunition. Arrests (all felonies) for illegal possession are common.

[krussadams]

Sounds like a very cool cop. I've had positive experiences with LEO's and I've had very negative experiences with LEO's, and I always prefer to hear about positive ones. Thanks for sharing your story.

I am wondering why they took the gun and if you got it back.

Yeah, I've had my negative experiences too, but to be honest...the positive ones are the ones that always stick out in my mind. This cop turned out to be pretty damn cool in my book. My wife was certain when he showed up at the house that he was coming to arrest me after all, but to deliver my knife? Restores your faith in humanity a bit, y'know?

As far as taking my gun, about the only things I can think of were he wanted to do it just in case I was BSing him and was on the verge of acting irrational or was thinking of hurting someone - he was giving me a cooling-off period. That, or they wanted to get the ballistics on it to see if it was used in a crime/add to the database for future reference. I did get it back, though...went back about 2 weeks after and got it back without a hitch, no fines, fees or anything.

He was damned lucky, as far as I am concerned. Here in MA, in order to simply possess the pistol, even in his own home, he would need a License To Carry, which is issued solely at the discretion of local police chiefs and only to "suitable persons". The chief has the right to yank it at any time, with or without good reason. ...

Wow. I think MA just ended up on my "nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there" list. What you describe sounds a lot more like what I would expect here in CA. I do consider myself lucky for the way things happened that day, but again - it is what you make it, too. With those nonsensical laws you just laid out, though...well, sounds really hard to make lemonade with those lemons.

[James White]

First, I am not a lawyer. So your mileage may vary.

To my knowledge, 55.01 has never been applied to knives. It specifically addresses firearms.

All the other items that could be used as weapons are addressed in other statutes. Local statutes are always a little tricky because of use of loose terms like "weapon". But in the case of LA and California in general, The law is much easier to read because when placed side-by-side they paint a very specific picture of what type of knives, what specific type of carry, and even what length of the knives are allowed in every situation. And then it's all relaxed by the "work or recreation" exception.

In general, compared to New York or Chicago, L.A. is a great place if you love your spring assisted tactical folders. Keep the clip covered, and you're good.

There is a special court case where it was used on knives and it was eventually overturned in the state court. I believe it was People vs Bass, back in 1968. Either way, I am becoming more and more convinced that I'll risk it a bit and go with a 4" folder and be cautious, most likely a lanyard?

Recon 1 is a good knife but a bit on the heavy side, compared to the "Voyager" series. That is why I chose a 4" "Voyager". Both series are excellent quality and razor sharp, right out of the box. Lynn Thompson stands behind his products 100%. Keep that knife fully concealed and you should not have any problems while carrying in public.

I actually prefer the weight, it reminds me that it's there. Thank you for the contribution.

I've been lurking here a bit, just joined - and figured I'd add my two cents here as my inaugural post. Hope you all don't mind.

If you want to act out of an abundance of caution and follow the letter of the law(s), I would suggest that you go with a 2.99" or under for carry. That way, you can keep it clipped to your pocket (if folder) or in open carry (if fixed blade) - always readily accessible. Have a run-in with an a-hole cop? No worries - you are covered. Section 55.01 speaks only to concealed weapons (of any size), and 55.10 speaks to knives 3" or greater not concealed. Truth be told, if it's kept sharp, the length won't really matter when it's really needed as long as you know how to use it.

Or, you can start growing your hair, wearing a dastar and you can probably get away with carrying a kirpan at all times in accordance with 55.10(c).

My issue is that with a 2.99" knife, they'd most likely assume it was 3" (That .01 is hard to gauge by eye) and I'd be arrested anyways, only to be released later on the technicality. My other problem is that smaller knives carry smaller grips, even though I was looking into a Benchmade 557SBK, the grip was just too small for me to get an entire hand on it.

If anyone has a suggestion for a decent sized blade under 3" and maintaining a good sized grip, please feel free to recommend it. I'll be buying my blade soon enough and I'd like to see all the options.

Thank you all

[krussadams]

My issue is that with a 2.99" knife, they'd most likely assume it was 3" (That .01 is hard to gauge by eye) and I'd be arrested anyways, only to be released later on the technicality. My other problem is that smaller knives carry smaller grips, even though I was looking into a Benchmade 557SBK, the grip was just too small for me to get an entire hand on it.

If anyone has a suggestion for a decent sized blade under 3" and maintaining a good sized grip, please feel free to recommend it. I'll be buying my blade soon enough and I'd like to see all the options.

Thank you all

The Spyderco Persistence has a slightly larger OAL than the 557SBK (6.8125" vs. 6.78"), but has a 2.75" blade as opposed to the 557SBK's 2.91" blade. Looks ot be almost 1/4" gain in handle length, though sacrificing some blade length. Another option might be CRKT's 14K Summit series Long's Peak (plain edge) or Mt. Ranier (combo edge). These guys are 7" OAL, with 2.875" blades.

[TOM1960]

There is a special court case where it was used on knives and it was eventually overturned in the state court. I believe it was People vs Bass, back in 1968. Either way, I am becoming more and more convinced that I'll risk it a bit and go with a 4" folder and be cautious, most likely a lanyard?





I actually prefer the weight, it reminds me that it's there. Thank you for the contribution.



My issue is that with a 2.99" knife, they'd most likely assume it was 3" (That .01 is hard to gauge by eye) and I'd be arrested anyways, only to be released later on the technicality. My other problem is that smaller knives carry smaller grips, even though I was looking into a Benchmade 557SBK, the grip was just too small for me to get an entire hand on it.

If anyone has a suggestion for a decent sized blade under 3" and maintaining a good sized grip, please feel free to recommend it. I'll be buying my blade soon enough and I'd like to see all the options.

Thank you all

The CRKT "Drifter" has a 2.9" blade. Moderately priced, too. You should check it out. It could be the knife that meets your requirements.

[XiaolongJackson]

http://www.emersonknives.com/ekCQC14.php
http://www.emersonknives.com/mm5/mer...ory_Code=CQC14
The Emerson CQC-14 Snubby might be right down your alley. 2.7" blade with an extra long handle, and unlike other Emerson knives it doesn't have a chisel grind, so it's actually useful for utility purposes.