Strop

[wacki]

The JRE must be better. It costs more. (I think they probably age their wood longer...)


Stitchawl

Since the wood and price doesn't matter, I'm going to assume you are trolling.

That said, My question was in reference to the olive oil, napping and burring the cheap and ugly knives plus block espouses here:

http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html

Is that stuff really all that really beneficial. Should I even bother with that in a DIY project?

[bluntcut]

Since the wood and price doesn't matter, I'm going to assume you are trolling.

That said, My question was in reference to the olive oil, napping and burring the cheap and ugly knives plus block espouses here:

http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html

Is that stuff really all that really beneficial. Should I even bother with that in a DIY project?

Stitchawl was being sarcastic, he is very knowledgable about strops and gave great advices. DIY or not is up to you but there will be a learning-curve for you so Stitchawl want to save you some bucks by making your own strops. I bought a whole big piece of veg-tan horse-butt and made 20 strops, eventually I only use 2 bare leather strop2. I experimented with compounds (CrO, diamond, cbn, Sic, Alumina) charged strops, yup plenty of rounded or overly convexed edges. Now, I only use compound charged strop to convex and polish my edges.

[stitchawl]

Since the wood and price doesn't matter, I'm going to assume you are trolling.

Not trolling at all. Wondering. Wondering at people who spend 5x the money for something that anyone with two hands can make at home in less than 7 minutes. It might take a one-armed man 10 minutes. A strop isn't some magical piece of equipment. It's just a surface to use to refine an already sharp edge. You can strop on a magazine cover, your jeans, or as you've already seen, a paint stirring stick with some old leather glued to it. ALL will work well if your technique is good.

That said, My question was in reference to the olive oil, napping and burring the cheap and ugly knives plus block espouses here:

http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html
Is that stuff really all that really beneficial. Should I even bother with that in a DIY project?

Did you use the 'Search' function here and see what dozens of threads have said about it already? Or ask yourself the question; "Is a barber's strop smooth or napped?" Yes, some folks like the feeling they get from a napped surface. And manufacturers are going to sell what people ask for. That makes good business sense. But the guys who's livelihood used to depend upon customers being happy with the shaves they got ALWAYS used their strops smooth and glossy. Hard, compressed leather. Supple perhaps (good quality horsehide is very supple,) but still with a very firm surface. The guys who made hand-carved furniture sharpened their woodworking tools on a piece of wood, often just coated with green barn paint. Firm surface for a beveled edge, a soft surface for a convex edge. What are YOU sharpening?

Want to spend money? Buy a pre-made strop. But don't expect it to work any better than something an 8yr old can make in a few minutes. It will, however, possibly be prettier, but that doesn't get your knife any sharper.


Stitchawl

[AFAustin]

Lately I have been using denim for a strop, with the compound on it of course. We all have jeans that are worn out and probably should be tossed. Recycle them into strops!

I like the way they work even better than leather, after using leather strops for about 30 years.

I've also had good luck with denim strops. I use leather strops as well, but the denim seems to work best for me for that "final final" stropping. Most of my knives have a shallow convex, as I set the original edge with a Work Sharp (mini belt sander).

I've got one with green compound, one with Mother's Mag polish, and one bare, typically used in that order. I made them by simply wrapping a section of worn out jeans around a paint stick. I use 2 layers on the ones with compound, and 3 for the bare one. The denim also seems more forgiving as to getting the exact angle right. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members can explain the dynamics, but the denim strops seem to provide a lighter touch, making them less likely to round the edge if the angle is too high.

Virtually free, and effective. I am surprised they're not talked about more around here.

Andrew

[Magnaminous_G]

In defense of the Strop Blok, it is not only for people with lots of money, nor is it in any way a waste of money. It is one of the most popular, best strops available, and people swear by it and live by it. I don't think it's excessively expensive; in fact, I think it's more than worth the money at less than $20 because nothing is worth more than my time. Going out and buying the materials, cutting them to size and sanding and gluing, etc. Even if you are a speed demon in the car and in the shop, that would take you an hour at least, and then I'd be darned impressed. An hour of my precious, scarce free time is worth more than $20. Way more.

And the Strop Block is no normal strop. It's not a thin coat of compound rubbed onto the surface of leather that needs to occasionally be reapplied. Over at Knives Plus, they are melting down the chromium oxide compound in olive oil and hot working it into the leather. It leaves a layer of compound that is deep in the leather but not caking it. You can still see and feel the leather fibers just fine. When your strop is loaded, all you do is wet your finger in olive oil and rub fresh compound to the surface, and the Strop Block is clean and ready to use again. How long does it last like that? I asked the folks at Knives Plus, and they said they've been using the same Strop Block in their shop for four years and have never reapplied compound. I believe it because I've been using mine for over a year, and still going strong. And I sharpen a lot of knives (but don't always finish on the strop block). And that's not even mentioning the construction quality. It's a beautiful strop made with top quality leather, compound, and a very nice particle base that is smoothly rounded and solid all at corners and edges.

So no, it is not just a normal strop you can slap together at home in a few minutes, and it is definitely not a rich man's toy or too expensive. In fact, I think it's one of the greatest values on the planet, and I'm not exagerrating.

[stitchawl]

In defense of the Strop Blok, it is not only for people with lots of money, nor is it in any way a waste of money. It is one of the most popular, best strops available, and people swear by it and live by it. I don't think it's excessively expensive; in fact, I think it's more than worth the money at less than $20 because nothing is worth more than my time.

I'm glad that you enjoy your strop. Use it in good health.
I'm sure that having 3-4 strops from that company will give you a range of compound grit sizes as well as the bare leather strop so necessary for the finished edge. And all for under $100.
(They DO sell them in different compounds and grit sizes, right? And bare?)


Stitchawl

[David Martin]

I have purchased top grain full cow hides, vegetable tanned/ chromium tanned and have them at home in my shop. Just selecting the best piece of leather, cutting these to size, finding a suitable board, may need to sand it flat. Then glue it, roll it some and put weights on it for an over night cure, takes me well over one hour and I have everything at home with two good arms. The next day I'll need to work in compounds should I want one with that. Easily requiring two or more hours. DM

[stitchawl]

I have purchased top grain full cow hides, vegetable tanned/ chromium tanned and have them at home in my shop. Just selecting the best piece of leather, cutting these to size, finding a suitable board, may need to sand it flat. Then glue it, roll it some and put weights on it for an over night cure, takes me well over one hour and I have everything at home with two good arms. The next day I'll need to work in compounds should I want one with that. Easily requiring two or more hours. DM

LOL! I sure wouldn't hire you by the hour. When you're ready, you can hire me. Only takes me a few minutes. I too have plenty of leather, but taking a piece off the shelf and cutting it only takes me a minute or two . The wood is already flat. Squeezing out glue from a tube? 20 seconds at most. (add in another minute if you are using Barge Cement in the can.) Add in another 30 seconds to spread it. I will admit that I have to wait 20-30 minutes for the contact cement to set up, but I multi-task; I use that time to wash the dishes. Then I go back and drop the leather onto the wood and tap it down with a rubber mallet. That takes another minute at most. I suppose I could use it then to strop on, but that much work really tires me out, so I'll probably need a nap first. Then fully re-energized, I can crayon in some compound, perhaps 3-4 strokes with a bar, or 5-6 drops of liquid, and a full (certainly not less) minute spent rubbing it around the leather with my thumb and I'm good to go. Any more than that and you're playin' with it.


Stitchawl

[Obsessed with Edges]

My homemade strops were put together using 2-1/2" wide double-sided carpet tape, which happened to be exactly the same width as the 2-1/2" wide oak I picked up at the local home-improvement center. I cut a section of the wood into three equal-length pieces. I used a jigsaw to make the cuts, and even took a little extra time to clamp a straight-edged guide for the saw to the board, for straighter cuts. I cut the leather to approximate size for the blocks, allowing a little overlap for the edges (~1/8" or less). Attaching the leather to the wood was the easiest & quickest part; just lay the tape down on the wood, as it comes off the roll, then peel the backing from the other side of the tape, flip the block over and press it down on the rough side of the leather. The carpet tape is extremely sticky & grabby (it's even somewhat challenging to pull fingers off of it), so it secures the leather in place immediately, with no 'cure time' needed for the adhesive. Trimmed the edges of the leather with a utility blade, and it was ready for compound application. Green compound was crayon'ed onto one of the strops (less than 5 minutes), and I used a flexible plastic ruler like a putty blade to apply some Simichrome paste to another one (another 5 minutes). I left the third one bare, to be used more-or-less as an 'experimental' strop for other compounds later, and I've since adopted it as my backing surface for sandpaper sharpening. I made three strop blocks this way, with perhaps an hour's total time invested, from cutting the wood to the compound application.

I had put off doing this for a long time prior, on the assumption it would be tedious to get done. I was pleasantly surprised at how simple it turned out to be.

I don't fault anybody for wanting to purchase a quality strop initially (I did). When first getting acquainted with stropping, and having no experience to guide you, it's impossible to know what 'works' and what might not. From that perspective, the seemingly 'safe' option is to buy a pre-made one, on the assumption that it won't disappoint (and many don't, as echoed here in this thread). But, after using strops for a while, and especially after finding how simple it actually is to make one that works excellently, then it starts to make one wonder, "Why didn't I just make one in the first place?" My store-bought strop (a German 4-sided razor-strop 'bat' of good reputation), has gone unused since I made my own. Most of the reason for this is that it was pre-compounded for use with shaving razors, using compounds that often aren't quite as effective on more abrasion-resistant steels. This highlights the possible 'down side' of buying a pre-made strop, in that it's easy to make a bad buying decision also, due to a lack of experience or trustworthy advice, when first starting. That's when it becomes all-the-more painful, in knowing how much money was spent in buying a tool that didn't work out as hoped.

The lesson learned, for me, after both buying and making my own strops, is that with a compounded strop, the leather & wood are far less important than the compound used, when the compound is smartly chosen for the steel being stropped. That makes all the difference, and virtually any substrate will suffice (wood, cardboard, paper, leather, fabric, etc.). The higher-quality finishing strops intended to be used bare (razor strops) are an exception of course, where the leather itself is getting all the work done.

[stitchawl]

I don't fault anybody for wanting to purchase a quality strop initially (I did).

Those of us who were alive back when Eisenhower was President, and sharpening knives almost as long, didn't have the resources for information that are available today. There was little knowledge available about sharpening and stropping so we looked to the manufacturers and store keepers to tell us what we needed. That made sense... then.

We all bought pre-made strops. I've got about a two dozen that I bought from Hand American alone, to say nothing of others that I bought from other sources. They were ALL good strops. Some were double sided and made to fit in tight plastic bases (the maker never even suggested that there might be contamination of grit sizes when turning it over in the same base... (l'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he probably didn't know about that himself.) He sold strops made of 6 different leathers, each with two different surface styles, and I bought them all. I thought that these stops, because they were made and sold by a "Strop Maker" were somehow better than just a piece of leather glued to a substrate.

I didn't know any better back then.

I know better now. Strop makers are out to make money. They are going to sell what EVER customers think will make their knives sharper. People think you need a LOT of compound, so one strop maker puts on so much that the user never needs to add more. Just add a drop of oil and rub some more compound to the surface. Brilliant! The customer is happy and the strop maker sells more strops. The simple fact that with compound you only need a light dusting of the stuff to work perfectly never gets told by the shop to the new user. He's just traded his cow for three magic beans.

The information IS available to the new user today. Unfortunately, the new user is too lazy to do a bit of research or learn the facts about strops and stropping. Hell, he's too lazy to even use the "search" function right here in the knife forum! He's still going to the shop keepers and manufacturers and saying, 'here's my cow. Please give me magic beans.' Is there any wonder that I become sarcastic?

Nothing wrong with buying 'good' products. But don't assume that they are good until you know the criteria for judging them. Just because a strop never needs to be re-loaded with compound does NOT make it a good strop. It's not a 'bad' strop. It's just worth twenty bucks.


Stitchawl

[carbonsteel928]

Those of us who were alive back when Eisenhower was President, and sharpening knives almost as long, didn't have the resources for information that are available today. There was little knowledge available about sharpening and stropping so we looked to the manufacturers and store keepers to tell us what we needed. That made sense... then.

We all bought pre-made strops. I've got about a two dozen that I bought from Hand American alone, to say nothing of others that I bought from other sources. They were ALL good strops. Some were double sided and made to fit in tight plastic bases (the maker never even suggested that there might be contamination of grit sizes when turning it over in the same base... (l'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he probably didn't know about that himself.) He sold strops made of 6 different leathers, each with two different surface styles, and I bought them all. I thought that these stops, because they were made and sold by a "Strop Maker" were somehow better than just a piece of leather glued to a substrate.

I didn't know any better back then.

I know better now. Strop makers are out to make money. They are going to sell what EVER customers think will make their knives sharper. People think you need a LOT of compound, so one strop maker puts on so much that the user never needs to add more. Just add a drop of oil and rub some more compound to the surface. Brilliant! The customer is happy and the strop maker sells more strops. The simple fact that with compound you only need a light dusting of the stuff to work perfectly never gets told by the shop to the new user. He's just traded his cow for three magic beans.

The information IS available to the new user today. Unfortunately, the new user is too lazy to do a bit of research or learn the facts about strops and stropping. Hell, he's too lazy to even use the "search" function right here in the knife forum! He's still going to the shop keepers and manufacturers and saying, 'here's my cow. Please give me magic beans.' Is there any wonder that I become sarcastic?

Nothing wrong with buying 'good' products. But don't assume that they are good until you know the criteria for judging them. Just because a strop never needs to be re-loaded with compound does NOT make it a good strop. It's not a 'bad' strop. It's just worth twenty bucks.


Stitchawl

The guys over at HA are great guys and I too have a BOX full of their strops. Its only the last year or so that I've started to make my own strops for a FRACTION of my HA strops and they work just the same. I've noticed, as some have mentioned that a strop won't do for you what your technique isn't able to. So no matter the strop or its price, you still need to learn proper use... as you said, no magic results.

Great information, stichawl, if only I had ran into your posts when I first started my sharp obsession. You would have saved me a few headaches and quite a bit of money.

Regards,
Mike

[stitchawl]

[QUOTE=carbonsteel928;11452140]The guys over at HA are great guys and I too have a BOX full of their strops. Its only the last year or so that I've started to make my own strops for a FRACTION of my HA strops and they work just the same. [quote\]

In all fairness, Keith DeGrau put a lot of time and effort into making nice looking strops and strop blocks. His first were double sided strops affixed to 1/4" thick crylon boards that fit into a heavy crylon base. Beautiful workmanship, but heavy, and the double sided strop would easily get contaminated with different grits. He then began producing a single-sided strop on a magnetic backing, to go along with a magnetic base. Every easy to change strops. He was then selling a dozen (or more) different types of leathers for these magnetic strop blocks. Latigo leather, Red 'colored' leather both plain and diamond pattern embossed, Black 'something' leather, of course veg-tanned smooth and veg tanned rough, etc., etc., etc. I bought at least one of everything he had... often two. In my own defense, there just wasn't any good sources of information about strops back then, and I figured that if I just bought everything available, it would probably include the "best" one!

Thank God today there is a better way to get the most for your money. It's called 'information.' Knowledge about the subject would have saved me a lot of money back then. I honestly don't understand why so many people today don't bother to even TRY to use the search function here. Instead, we get thread after thread asking 'does stropping help?' Or 'should I buy the four-sided strop or the six-sided strop to sharpen my harpoon?' My favorite is 'where can I buy a really good strop for my Kabar?'

Great information, stichawl, if only I had ran into your posts when I first started my sharp obsession. You would have saved me a few headaches and quite a bit of money.

You and I would benefit from having the information. Unfortunately there are waaay
too many people who somehow stumble over the facts, but pick themselves up and keep on going their own way regardless. There was a great line in a book I read once; "Defend your limitations, and sure enough, you own them!" Spend money on a strop and it becomes imperative to defend that expenditure. Most adults can afford twenty bucks for a tool. But when you can get 4 tools that work just as well for the same twenty bucks, and you have to mail order the tool anyway... No... I really don't understand at all.

Stitchawl

[Magnaminous_G]

I hear what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing with everything. But what I do disagree with is the theory that people who buy a pre-made strop are somehow uninformed. That if they just knew better, then the folks at Knives Plus wouldn't be able to sell any more Strop Blocks. Well, I agree that that sort of thing is very prevalent, and there are plenty of suckers who don't know any better before they go buy something. Personally, I consider myself a pretty careful consumer. I don't make impulse purchases. I researched the heck out of the Strop Bock (including here on BF) before I bought it. But when it comes to this topic of strops, some of the most experienced sharpeners I know have a Strop Block and use it regularly. I've been sharpening knives for years, and I've made my own strop before (albeit it a pretty crude one made from the back of a belt). And I don't only use the Strop Block, as I've said in my above post. I strop on dirty jeans. I strop on newspaper and cardboard laid over the stone. I strop on the back of my belt if I'm not at home. I strop on my palm sometimes (works sometimes, not always. )

I've got two strops right now. I've got the Chromium Oxide-loaded Strop Block and a plain Kangaroo leather glass-backed strop that cost me (put your drink down for this one) $60. What can I say? Lazy. Okay, the 'roo strop was a luxury purchase, but it is fantastic. Puts a real nice finish on an edge. They are fantastic strops, and I don't think they are a waste of money, at all. Do I need them? No, but I've got the money and I think it's worth it to buy pre-made if the quality is right and it fits my needs. Heck, the reason I don't cut my own hair is essentially the same. All it takes is a pair of scissors and a mirror. I've got both, so it would cost nothing, right? But there's a Budget Cuts down the street that does haircuts for $10.

So I don't consider myself particularly uninformed. That said, I don't know everything, and I'm sure I still have a lot to learn and could learn a lot from you. But I'm not uninformed, and I don't think it's fair to say that everyone who buys a pre-made strop is uninformed. Maybe just a bit lazy (and willing to spend a little bit of money).

[OHALLUM]

" I consider myself a pretty careful consumer. I don't make impulse purchases."

I too am a careful consumer since I am retired and on a limited and fixed income. To say I research a purchase prior to purchasing is an understatement. I could have made my own strop as I have all the tools necessary to make one. I did not have the leather however, and by the time I could have found a place to get a piece, drive out to get it and return home, I would have spent more on travel than I would have by buying one on line. My time is cheap as I have lots of spare time. I ordered one from the StropMan and it was in my hands in three days. I paid less for it than It would have cost me in gasoline to buy the materials locally.

I have since made 4 balsa strops to experiment with and spent about $10 in materials. I enjoyed the process of making them, but have used my leather strops in the meantime and have learned a lot about how to use them to improve my sharpening ability. I say all this to take up for people that "buy" instead of "make". I would rather "make" than "buy" whenever it is advantageous for me. However sometimes it is better for me to "buy" after research.

It is not a "one size fits all" scenario. To say so is narrow minded in my opinion. We all need to make and save money in our society, and the makers of strops need to make a living also. I don't have the facilities to raise my own beef, so I depend on others to raise and sell theirs for my consumption. It's the "AMERICAN" way!
No condemnation to anyone, but Blessings to all.

Omar

[stitchawl]

But I'm not uninformed, and I don't think it's fair to say that everyone who buys a pre-made strop is uninformed. Maybe just a bit lazy (and willing to spend a little bit of money).

I didn't say EVERYONE who bought a pre-made strop was uniformed. Turn it around and put it back IN CONTEXT with the REST OF THE POST and you'll see I was saying that 'most' (didn't say anything about 'all,') people who don't bother to look for the information about the effects and use of a strop from 'sources OTHER than shops that sell them, buy pre-made strops. Getting one's information from the guys who are trying to sell them is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

I did not have the leather however, and by the time I could have found a place to get a piece, drive out to get it and return home, I would have spent more on travel than I would have by buying one on line. My time is cheap as I have lots of spare time. I ordered one from the StropMan and it was in my hands in three days. I paid less for it than It would have cost me in gasoline to buy the materials locally.

I see what you are saying... You saved a lot of money by not driving to buy your leather. Instead, you ordered a pre-made strop on line. You spent $20 to get ONE strop. If you ordered the the leather on line instead of ordering the pre-made strop, you would have FOUR strops for the same money.

THAT is exactly the point I was making about information.

Of course, being lazy does count too. I have a piece of horsehide that I throw in my suitcase when I travel. Just the leather. No block. When I use it, I just lay it down on the desk in the motel room. Great strop for touch-ups. No weight to carry. Making it took almost 20 seconds with a box cutter and ruler. (Even David Martin could make it in less than a minute... )


Stitchawl

[filedog]

Ok, lots of good information here. I was wondering if I should use the rough or smooth side,
smooth it is. I already have a smooth one, HA I think. The second side was loose so I peeled
it off. I was also wondering about the two sided ones getting contaminated, so I will move to
one sided. Have leather laying around, just need to glue one up, thanks!