need any help on stencils/etching

[godogs57]

Just trying to etch my newly arrived stencil and need some tips. Up until now, I have been stamping my name.

When etching, I use a etchant for stainless steels....my etcher is one that has a variable amount of juice that can be used. I just cranked it up to the max, and put a drop or two of etchant on the blade, place the stencil on top of the drops, then the pad on top of the whole deal...turn it on for about a count of three, and I get a rather faint etching. It is not at all dark like the ones I usually see. I thought I was not keeping it on the blade long enough when applying the voltage, but when I left it there for, oh six seconds or so, it really got screwed up then...very hazy, fuzzy, not too defined...I knew I was headed in the wrong direction on this. Fortunately, I was practicing on old blade steel just to get a feel for it.

Anyway, the stencil just ain't dark enough, and my solution of keeping the juice flowing a little longer is not the answer....am I missing something in my technique? Is their some sort of metal prep prior to applying the stencil? Something to do to it after etching to darken it? I must be missing something here....

Any help is sincerely appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[TJ Smith]

I have the best luck by just having the pad damp.
I clean my blade area with acetone by flooding the metal with a brush.No wiping let dry.
I then tape my stencil where I want it, position the damp pad over it. I have the machine turned off. I set the machine to etch and turn it on for a count of 5. Do this 3 times. To blacken the etch set your machine to mark or black and turn it on for a count of 5. 2 - 3 times.
If you get a greyor brownish cloud I think your pad was to wet.
There is a fine line between to wet and to dry. Actually I,ve never tried it to dry.Something to think about.
Anyway this works about 90 % of the time.
My $.02
TJ

[fitzo]

Like TJ said, wet the pad, not the blade. Try less power and a lot more "strikes" of 2-3 seconds. The idea of the short application is to not boil off the solution from the heat. DC voltage etches deep, then AC voltage redeposits a black oxide. Make sure the polarity is correct (wires are correct for blade/pad). Some haziness around the etch is not uncommon as long as the line is crisp. Sand lightly or buff, depending on the finish.

Also, make sure you have an electrolyte best suited for your steel. All electrolytes aren't equal.

[Will52100]

I've got the Marking Methoud's electro etch, the one without the the hi or low setting, got etch and mark and on and off. The way I've found that works for me is similar to TJ's, except that I wet the pad and blot the excess till it's just barely damp, then etch for two minits, then mark for two minits. I've got an old wrist watch that the band broke on to time it. As soon as I take the stencil off it looks cloudy and rough, but a few passes with 600 grit+, or a light buff cleans it up and the long time etching looks like a stamp, it's that deep. I don't leave the pad in contact the whole two minits, I strike for 10-15 seconds, lift it up and eye ball it for a second, then back, so on and so on.

[godogs57]

Well, I am sort of confused, as I thought I was leaving it on for too long, but that must not be the case. I will clean the blade, and not place a few drops on the blade prior to striking it, and see what happens. That was a good idea regarding multiple strikes for shorter periods of time.

TJ: it sounds like your etching is a two step process?? Etching and then blackening? My etcher is AC and DC...honestly, at this hour of the morning, I can't remember what mine is set on, but it is the one that blackens the blade, per the owners manual. Do you etch on DC and blacken on AC? This was not in my owners manual, nor was that ever explained to me in that manner...but it also seems fitzo is saying that is the way to go too.

Thanks for your help....will head to the shop and play with the new toy while we try to dodge ol' Francis today in South Georgia.

Have a great Labor Day,

Hank

[Darren Ellis]

Originally Posted by godogs57

it sounds like your etching is a two step process?? Etching and then blackening? My etcher is AC and DC...Do you etch on DC and blacken on AC?
Hank

Yes, that is correct, you actually etch the blade on the DC setting, which removes metal (or etches) the blade to a certain depth. The longer you etch the blade on the DC setting the deeper your etch mark will become. You definitely want to alternate it on and off as has been mentioned so you don't burn your stencil, for my etcher, I do it 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off, but you'll need to play around with yours to find the best timing. Once you etch it on the DC setting to the desired depth, you then need to darken it so it stands out. The AC setting is used for this and is what causes there to be a dark oxide deposited down in the etched out mark. ...so DC first, then switch to AC to darken the etched out area.



-Darren

[joe sangster]

undefinedGodogs57, I'm originally from Dooly Co. Ga & will be down in Nov. Any chance of paying you a visit while I'm down ?

Best Wishes,
Joe Sangster

[fitzo]

Originally Posted by godogs57

TJ: it sounds like your etching is a two step process?? Etching and then blackening? My etcher is AC and DC...honestly, at this hour of the morning, I can't remember what mine is set on, but it is the one that blackens the blade, per the owners manual. Do you etch on DC and blacken on AC? This was not in my owners manual, nor was that ever explained to me in that manner...but it also seems fitzo is saying that is the way to go too.

Hank, yes, etch with DC first to put a little depth to your logo, then switch to AC at the end to blacken.

The timing and how much etching that will occur is a function of both the current setting (power) and how wet the pad is. The dryer (ie, more blotted) the pad, the less current will flow, and thus the longer etching time is necessary. (Think of it like the old 9 volt battery trick: touch the poles with your finger and you don't feel it. Touch it to your wet tongue for a "buzz"!!)

The optimum conditions vary from person to person because of not only the machine, but things like the dampness of the pad, the electrolyte match with the steel, the steel and it's hardness, and very much the stencil itself, both it's complexity and the fabric it was made from. Fine lines etch quicker and deeper than broad lines, and leave less haziness.

The bottom line is that there are no hard and fast "rules". There are too many variables involved and thus it has to be worked out by each user. Hopefully these "guidelines" and some experimentation will get you where you want to be. Stick with it and you'll have some very pleasing results.

[godogs57]

Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit....learn something new every day, but ain't that the idea of this message board?

Thanks so much for the info guys...still dodging a hurricane right now.

Joe, call me anytime...drop me an email and we will hook up if I am not hanging from a tree stand at that time. Looking forward to the visit.

Hank

[Mark Williams]

Hank and Joe. Please come by and see us at the Trackrock hammer-in in Blairsville the w/e of Nov 6 ,7.

www.trackrock.com

[gator68]

Play around with the electrolyte -- I just use salt and water on carbon steels. Stainless steels do seem to require the professional electrolyte.

[godogs57]

Hey Mark...wish I could...used to live near there...but our bucks are in rut the second week of November.....duty calls! Do they have any more hammer ins outside of deer season? I just finished my very first forged blade...wish I knew how to post a pic here so I could brag for once.

Take it easy,

Hank

[Mark Williams]

Hank, we usually have another shindig in the Spring also. Shoot the picture to me and I'll post it for you.

[godogs57]

Hey folks thanks for the tips....tried it last night on some scrap stuff and low and behold a few strikes of 3 seconds or so with DC etched it, and a few with AC darkened it....aint life grand when things work out.

The mark was a little fuzzy around the edges though....needs more experimentation before I perfect it.

May shoot you a pic or two Mark...rather excited about that first forged blade. Thanks again for all y'all's help.

Hank Hammond

[the possum]

I have an etching maching Alex Daniels made for me years ago. I intended to make more full sized knives then, but never really got around to it. (I mostly make minis) I have a few bigger ones I'd like to mark now, but forgot where to get the electrolyte and custom stencils. Where do you guys have your stencils made?

I do remember Alex told me he uses a some kind of gold preparation from Brownell's to fill his name with gold after etching. Might want to consider that if you have problems getting it to darken.

[Terry_Dodson]

Are there any places that will make just a couple stencils pretty cheap?

[fitzo]

It's not really the stencils that cost so much, it is the setup and artwork. You can always try to make your own. Seek out Bob Warner's site for a tutorial. Still, there are material costs. No doubt, there's a decent-sized initial expenditure to accomplish electrochemical etching.

[Frank Eaton]

Anybody ever etch thru chrome, and how about the black coating on like a benchmade knife?

[loneronin]

first of all, this is one of the best threads I found on logo etching. thank you for sharing this!

I would like to make an etching machine with a palmtop transformer (output 20V, 3,25A). Do you guys think this output is ok? or I need a higher voltage/amperage?
If I have to buy a new transformer wich is the right voltage/amperage output to look for to etch the logo on blades?

moreover, I read on another forum some knifemakers use diluited car battery fluid (solforic acid) to etch, some others mix salt, vinegar and lemon juice, some others only salt and water. which's the best electrolyte

thanks in advance!

[Rusty McDonald]

I use the 4oz vinegar and a TS of salt. works on everything I have tried it on so far.