All of the secrets of Japanese HT revealed

[Chiro75]

Wouldn't that be nice? A few people wanted to know my method for getting hamon on 1095. This is the first installment. Second installment will show the finished etched blades. Here's my procedure:

1) Thermal cycle the blades a few times (some may call this normalizing, but with no real temperature controls I don't want this to sound more technical than it is. I heat the blade toward non-magnetic, air cool to black, repeat a few times). Here they are after "normalizing":


2) Once the knives are completely cooled, I coat in my clay, which is Imperial stove and furnace cement. Cheap, sticky, works well. Doesn't need to dry, pops off in the quench once it's done its job, what's not to like?! You can see the shape I apply the clay in. Maybe a 3/32" layer, but it puffs up quite a bit once it goes in the forge. Views of the clay before heating:




3) Heat to non-magnetic, hold there/slightly over for a good 10 count, then quench in warm automatic transmission fluid.

4) Clean off, temper at 380 degrees or so for an hour. Here they are right after quenching. The clay has popped off both sidex on every knife except for one, but that was stuck on by the surface tension of the ATF and I popped it off with no effort at all.

[rhrocker]

Thanks 75!

[steelswing]

Nice thanks I have a fighter I was wanting to clay coat and it's 1084

[Chiro75]

1084 gets an even more noticeable hamon than 1095, so you'll be in good shape.

[Chiro75]

Here are some updated pics, fellas. These are the two Tactical Orange Peelers in the middle of the pics above. I didn't mark the knives, but looking at the clay and the finished results, I would guess that the first few pics I post (we'll call them #8 below) are the knife that is second from the top in the first set of pics, and the #9 pics below are the third from the top. The etches were done differently on these, so #8 is a little lighter and almost "glows" and #9 is a little darker.

#8:






#9

[Tom Militano]

Where are you buying the Imperial stove and fireplace cement?

[Chiro75]

I found it at Lowe's in the wintertime. I'll have to go back and check if I can buy some more. I use about 2 teaspoon's worth, maybe, on a 2" blade, so it lasts a good long time. You'll notice my hamon are not the violent sort of crazy things that guys like Fogg get, but I haven't been able to figure out if it's the clay, the oil (versus brine, but Fogg uses Texaco Type A, I think), the forging, the etch, the photographic technique, all, some or none of these factors!

[Tom Militano]

Thanks, I'll check them out tomorrow.

[Chiro75]

I used it in two forms, two different companies, same product as far as I could tell. One was a furnace cement found in a caulk tube sort of thing in the caulking and adhesives section, then they stopped carrying that and that's when I found the Imperial stuff, that time in the furnace/heating area. Just look at the labels and make sure it withstands plenty of heat. The stuff glows bright red before quench. I like it a lot.

[Dan Gray]

Cool Steve
thanks

will you keep the pictures hosted for here?
if so I'll link this to the knife making site..if OK with you.

[apox77]

Thats awesome!!! You're becomeing quite the teacher as well as knifemaker... I really appreciate your efforts!

[ANGRYMOB]

Originally Posted by Tom Militano

Where are you buying the Imperial stove and fireplace cement?

I will need to check that out at my local Lowes....you can use satanite refractory cement with the same effect, but you will have to order it online...ellis knifeworks carries it I believe, as well as some of the knifemaking supply stores. BTW, chiro, I was the one who sent you that email of my vinegar etch hamon....I realized that since my email was totally different you were probably scratching yoor head. I then figured out how to post a link to some pics....I like the way your hamons look a little better, though, but I was just surprised to get one at all from O-1......Mitch

[Chiro75]

Dan, unless I run out of server space, which I highly doubt, I will leave the pics up for all of eternity!

You're becomeing quite the teacher as well as knifemaker...

Like I aslways say "if you do the opposite of what I do/say, you'll be well on your way to a knifemaking career!"

I have Satanite and I like the Imperial stuff better (for now) because I don't need to wire it, let it dry, mix it, etc. I open the jar, smear it on, stick it in the forge, quench, it pops off, and it's great. Like I said, my hamon are not the really interesting ones I've seen on other knives, but I don't know which factors are responsible for that. I suspect the forging has a lot to do with it. I also haven't done any Rockwell analysis on these knives, so I'm not sure how soft the spine is left. That said, I don't how soft the spine SHOULD be left, so who cares?!

[Dan Gray]

Originally Posted by Chiro75

Dan, unless I run out of server space, which I highly doubt, I will leave the pics up for all of eternity!

it's up and running

[Chiro75]

Cool, thanks! BTW, I have a link to your site on my links page, too. Very informative. The amount of information that floats around out there is crazy!

[Dan Gray]

Originally Posted by Chiro75

Cool, thanks! BTW, I have a link to your site on my links page, too. Very informative. The amount of information that floats around out there is crazy!

yes to try and get it all in one place to look up is a problem..
TX for the reciprocal link it helps with the engines and directory's.

[DaveH]

I have a dopey question. It looks nice certainly, but does it actually keep the spine from hardening fully? Is it's function supposed to hold the heat a little longer to prolong the quench time?

[Doug C]

Thanks.Didn't know 1084 gets as nice or nicer a hamon as 1095,but now that I think about it I have seen some beautiful temper lines on 1084.Lot's of info.Thanks again.

[NickWheeler]

All things being as they are supposed to per spec sheets (meaning you actually have 1084 and 1095) 1095 is the better steel for creating a hamon.

The nose on 1095 is a hard one to get past... 1084 is a little easier to harden in that regard.

The only counter-argument is that some folks want is lower carbon content. But it's things like manganese that really have a great big effect.

Don Fogg uses 1095

-Nick-

[Chiro75]

I've noticed a more obvious effect with 1084 (although like you said, my 1084 could be 1080 or God knows what!) I have. The etch is different, too. I think I have real 1084 because when I was using it I noticed a lot of banding in the steel and that's from manganese, according to what I've been reading as of late. I like the hamon I get on 1095 a lot more than 1084, though.

DaveH, the fact that I haven't Rockwell tested one of my knives is why I said I'm not sure what the real effect of that clay I use is. We did some testing on a 1084 blade that Sean helped me out with and the transition zone was quite soft, so I think it works. It is rated to take very high heat, so I can't imagine why it wouldn't work, and the "soft" area etches completely differently from the hardened area (noticeable especially with Nick's vinegar etch recipe), so I think it's achieving what it is supposed to be achieving. I don't know why it wouldn't, but then again I haven't sent it out for formal Rockwell testing.

Nick, when you say manganese has a great big effect, in what way do you mean? 1084 has much more manganese than 1095, right? Did you mean it has a great effect on the hamon, or what? FWIW I hated working with 1084. It had thick scale, banding in the steel (even though it was hot rolled), was a ^&*%!@ to drill, had a nice hard center. Yuck. I hated it. 1095 I've been getting from Koval has been a lot better, and the O1 I got from precision-marshall was like butter compared to everything else I've ever used!