Jim Wagner, Game Over

[Bubbanumber1]

To be honest I had never heard of Jim Wagner before I saw his add taken out a couple years ago selling his "Reality Based" knife made by Boker of Germany. The knife did not appear to be total junk like many of the knives sold as military style knives but it was nothing new outside of having more features than a Swiss Army Knife, all of them being overhyped as selling points when in fact it was just much about nothing. The initial advertisement did stay in the back of my mind as it was somewhat bothersome to see what was a small fuller advertised as blood grooves on a knife that was being marketed to kill humans as a last line of defense when in fact the fuller is absolutely useless in such a small blade and possibly harmful by making the small thin blade harder and more brittle during the heat treat which would make it snap under stress rather than bend. I considered it dishonest advertisement but in retrospect it could have just been amateur design combined with hyper marketing. Later the name Wagner seemed to pop up everywhere, mostly in paid advertisements.


Here is a picture of the knife as advertised.

I viewed the knife advertisements as being overhyped but the resume of the designer would make P.T. Barnum blush. According to Jim Wagner himself he is none other the original Black Belt Forrest Gump of been there done that military cop special tactics special forces sniper counter sniper scout sniper marshal inosanto kali jeet kun do krav kapap counter terror mofos. What follows is pictures and quotes mostly from the Wagner website.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner.html

There are few self-defense instructors in the world with a background like that of Jim Wagner's. There are even fewer who have had such a dramatic impact on the martial arts world. For his achievements Jim Wagner was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame as Self-Defense instructor of the Year 2006, the "Academy Awards" of the martial arts community, and simultaneously inducted into the Budo International Hall of Fame for Outstand Achievement in the Martial Arts 2006. This was awarded to him for developing his reality-based concepts and training methods. Going back to 2000 he was appointed as an honorary member of the Brazilian Air Force for training their Air Force's counterterrorist team known as GEPA. Today Jim Wagner's own system Reality-Based Personal Protection, made public on January 21, 2003, is one of the fastest growing self-defense systems in the world.

Joining the military

At the age of 18 Jim Wagner joined the United States Army. His MOS (Military Occupation Specialty) was combat radio operator. As Jim put it, "I carried a heavy durable radio on my back that had a long whip antenna above, an M16 rifle in one hand and the radio mike in the other, and followed around the commander." His time in service was only five years after the Vietnam War, the Iranians had American hostages, and it was out with President Jimmy Carter and in with President Ronald Regan. This was the Cold War. Yet, despite the lack of conflict at the time, the military was a defining moment in the way that Jim would approach the martial arts later on in life. It was to plant the seeds of reality-based concepts.

When Jim Wagner went through "boot camp" (Basic Combat Training) at Fort Jackson, South Carolina he was extremely impressed to the degree of realism that the military trained its people. He recalls, "They were actually training for the real thing: simulated battlefields, replica enemy weapons, live-fire targets that were painted like Russian soldiers, smoke, explosions - the whole nine yards. Even the best martial arts studios that I had trained in before putting on a military uniform had never trained as realistically as this. That is to say, to include props and special effects as part of the training environment."

After BCT Jim went onto Advanced Individual Training (AIT) at Fort Gordon, Georgia and then to his permanent duty station, the HHC 43rd Combat Engineer Battalion, Fort Benning, Georgia.

Throughout his service in the army Jim maintained his martial arts skills and even gave private lessons to interested soldiers. After the army Jim Wagner went back home to Southern California and enrolled in collage majoring in graphic arts and learning the French language to pursue a career in advertising. After his first semester at Orange Coast College Jim started working as a production artist for Val-Pak Direct Marketing Systems and then landed the position as Art Director for Mammoth Publishing followed by CCM Publications. He then went on to work for a couple of advertising firms, and ended up as the president of Advertising Design Centre. These skills in marketing and advertising would prove useful in later years when Jim would begin promoting his new Reality-Based Personal Protection system. These same skills are now passed down to his Reality-Based instructors in training in his Level 3 courses: Advertising and Marketing, Business and Leadership, and Training DVD Production.

Much has been made about Wagner and his military background and I'm quite sure that anyone unfamiliar with the Army and DOD Documents would be impressed with Wagner on paper, however, any military personnel who read the Army resume of Wagner is left with more questions than answers. After I read part of it I started asking some questions myself, here are some of the answers to those questions.

Was Jim Wagner ever in the Army? That answer is yes, He joined the Army under the name James Linn Wagner on September, 9, 1980.

Was he ever a Sergeant in the U.S. Army? That answer is No. His highest rank was PV2 which is to say he was a Private E2. No shame in that but it is one hell of a dishonest thing to dress up in military uniforms in advertisements and and call yourself Sergeant selling to those looking for military based training.

Was Wagner ever Special Forces or any kind of Operator in the Army? Yes, he was a radio operator, beyond that, no, he was not Airborne, Special Forces, or a member of any unit considered high speed and to insinuate any such thing is just a lie.

How much Military experience does Wagner have in reality? This question was hard to answer but it has now been answered and I'm posting it here on Blade Forums first. Jim Wagner was a member of the U.S. Army a sum total of 8 months, thats right, he was only in the Army for 8 months and a week or so. His entry date was September 9, 1980 and his discharge date is May 20, 1981.

To break this down into a time line, 9 weeks basic training, 7 weeks radio operator training, 10 days (give or take) leave between training and showing up to duty at permanent party, undisclosed incident that made Wagner unfit for duty and eligible for separation, A few weeks worth of paper work to discharge him from the Army.

The paperwork I saw concerning this stated, "Transcript of Court-Martial Trial, Not In file" which could be read two ways, one, there was not a Court-Martial Trial, or two, there was a Trial and it resulted in him being discharged and the transcript was just as it said, Not in file. I cant say either way as I do not know but one thing is for sure, Jim Wagner was not discharged from the Army for doing a good job, furthermore his failure to be truthful regarding his true military record adds him to my list of scumbags.

[Bubbanumber1]

Jim Wagner Training Troops? How about Jim Wagner standing beside a truck! How about the mention of Afghanistan in this French Advertisement, what a bunch of bullshit! At least they got one thing right when they just use the word Pointe for point instead of Gladius Tip like the American Advertisement.

[Cougar Allen]

How about some evidence? If you have any facts post them.

You've posted some evidence of what's being advertised, but no evidence that it isn't true, only assertions.

[3Guardsmen]

Dang! Is it getting to where the who's who of posers are getting snatched up by the tactical knife industry, and the consumers' pockets are being picked on a regular basis now?

I'll tell ya, since the last go around, I now check every knife I'm considering buying that's listed as "issued to the Military" for an associated NSN.

Not that it really matters with the knife shown above, as it appears to have been based on the reality of a bad acid trip!

Regards,
3G

[Bubbanumber1]

Originally Posted by Cougar Allen

How about some evidence? If you have any facts post them.

You've posted some evidence of what's being advertised, but no evidence that it isn't true, only assertions.

Cougar, Is anyone disputing the fact he was only in the Army for 8 months?

[Cougar Allen]

Originally Posted by Bubbanumber1

Cougar, Is anyone disputing the fact he was only in the Army for 8 months?

I don't know how anybody's going to dispute your evidence until you post some. As long as all they see is an assertion with no evidence for it, people will just ignore that. Assertion is cheap....

[hardheart]

ah, Relaxin' Jackson

teehee

[Bubbanumber1]

Originally Posted by Cougar Allen

I don't know how anybody's going to dispute your evidence until you post some. As long as all they see is an assertion with no evidence for it, people will just ignore that. Assertion is cheap....

The last time I posted information similar to this I was called every name in the book, the thread was dumped into whine and cheese, it then took months for other people to confirm my original post stating that Duane Dwyer of Strider Knives was "No Go" concerning himself being a Marine Sniper.

This time of service information is breaking publicly today but I can confirm it has been fact checked prior to my posting it on Blade Forums. How it was fact checked is not currently public information but there will be a document released (NA 13164) soon enough.

[Cougar Allen]

It's deja vu all over again.... It's like shooting: the idea is to line up the front sight with the rear sight and the target and then press the trigger. If you press the trigger first your first shot doesn't hit the target. That can go on quite a while before someone else comes along and lines up the sights with the target and scores a hit.

[Bear Claw Chris Lappe]

Originally Posted by Bubbanumber1

Cougar, Is anyone disputing the fact he was only in the Army for 8 months?

At this point, it's not "fact", it's something you posted on a public forum with nothing to back it up.

See the difference?

It may be true, but why jump the gun and start this thread unless you were ready to step up with proof?

[Cougar Allen]

If you don't learn anything from this experience either, maybe you could title the next one "Mr. Fubar, Game Begins." No, wait ... that would require learning something from experience....

[Mike G]

Bubanumber1, I hope you understand that until evidence is presented, your allegations are just that; allegations.

I understand that the evidence hasn't been released yet, but when it is, you need to post that evidence to back up your allegation.

It is no different than accusing someone of a crime. You can accuse them all day long, but unless you have evidence of the crime, it is heresay.

You mention the Dwyer mess. Perhaps it would have been better in that case (and this one) to wait until you have the evidence before you post.

Just some helpful advice. YMMV.

[markksr]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Bubanumber1, I hope you understand that until evidence is presented, your allegations are just that; allegations.

I understand that the evidence hasn't been released yet, but when it is, you need to post that evidence to back up your allegation.

It is no different than accusing someone of a crime. You can accuse them all day long, but unless you have evidence of the crime, it is heresay.

You mention the Dwyer mess. Perhaps it would have been better in that case (and this one) to wait until you have the evidence before you post.

Just some helpful advice. YMMV.

I would go so far as to say that, without proof, these posts constitute trolling, and should be treated as such...

[Bubbanumber1]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Bubanumber1, I hope you understand that until evidence is presented, your allegations are just that; allegations.

I understand that the evidence hasn't been released yet, but when it is, you need to post that evidence to back up your allegation.

It is no different than accusing someone of a crime. You can accuse them all day long, but unless you have evidence of the crime, it is heresay.

You mention the Dwyer mess. Perhaps it would have been better in that case (and this one) to wait until you have the evidence before you post.

Just some helpful advice. YMMV.

In the Dwyer situation all that happened was independent verification as all the research had been completed and posted on POW Network prior to my starting a thread here. The original facts never changed although they were disputed for a time. Today even the most die hard fans of Mick Milli and Duane Vanilli know they built their reputations on bullshit, not secret missions.

People post information all the time on the forum minus supporting documents, I suspect anyone who does not believe what I posted just as the last time concerning Strider will not believe it no matter what I present as evidence but one reason I didn't post documents was so others could do some basic research themselves and see what they can find, Its not like I'm getting paid to invest my time into such projects. In this situation it took more than two years to get this question answered about his time in service but it is now a confirmed and independently verified undisputed fact. What is not clear is exactly why he was discharged with 8 months of service but I have not speculated about that.

Cougar, send me a email address by PM and I will send you something, then you can decide for yourself.

[Cougar Allen]

Convincing me wouldn't accomplish much anyway. We might as well let this thread die until someone who actually knows something comes along and posts it, presumably in a new thread ... if that ever happens....

Then you can say you were the first to post an allegation ... that's what you wanted, right? Maybe someone will be impressed.

[Bubbanumber1]

Originally Posted by Cougar Allen

Convincing me wouldn't accomplish much anyway. We might as well let this thread die until someone who actually knows something comes along and posts it, presumably in a new thread ... if that ever happens....

Then you can say you were the first to post an allegation ... that's what you wanted, right? Maybe someone will be impressed.

I'm not out to convince anyone about anything, truth is I don't care if people believe me or not. As far as me not knowing anything, thats not correct, but I'm not the attention whore that your making me out to be. I am somewhat puzzled by your reaction and line of thought concerning this matter like your statement about convincing you would not accomplish much. Its like your happier to be left in the dark so you can question what I have written rather to know the truth and just move on to the next subject.


In the end I doubt if many people care one way or the other about Wagner as this is more to do with trainers than selling knives but it is still a knife issue so I posted it here. As far as posting it here first that was done because this is a knife issue and I thought some members of the forum would appreciate having the information, those who prefer pictures of cats will still be entertained either way.

[Cougar Allen]

If you ever have any information to post, yes, we would be happy to have the information.

[rifon2]

The Boker Jim Wager knives can be had brand new for around 45 bucks or so, if I'm not mistaken.

The ad campaign is so over the top that it's sort of a parody.

If Jim Wagner is who he says he is, fine with me.
If he isn't, so it's just more advertising BS. There's plenty of that around, and not just in the knife business.

If it's a good knife or a cool knife or an interesting knife or a well made knife for 45 bucks or so - I think that's what's going to have people buying it or not.

Not the resume of Jim Wagner.

The Strider situation was different because of the price point of the knives.
Mick Strider was basically justifying the big numbers with his trumped up personal history.

If Jim Wagner was attempting to sell his knives for 3, 4, 5 hundred dollars based on his background - then his background would be worthy of closer scrutiny.

But for an inexpensive folder?
I doubt whether is paying much attention to the resume of "Jim Wagner".

My .02

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Cougar Allen

Convincing me wouldn't accomplish much anyway. We might as well let this thread die until someone who actually knows something comes along and posts it, presumably in a new thread ... if that ever happens....

Then you can say you were the first to post an allegation ... that's what you wanted, right? Maybe someone will be impressed.

Indeed. Until there's some verifiable records available, this is just nothing but hearsay.

[Bubbanumber1]

Jim Wagner aka James Wagner aka James Linn Wagner aka Sergeant Wagner aka Sergeant Jim Wagner

Scroll down to James Wagner.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1095.htm