Ever encounter "Magic Sidearm Syndrome"?

[Jack M]

Doing a little knife training with one of my nephews. No matter what tactical situation was mentioned, his first response was always "Well, since I got my CCW, I'd just shoot the guy!"
A little annoyed, I proceeded to put him in a number of, "what good is that Kimber now?" situations, close quarter stuff. I explained the old adage about close range and/or multiple attackers making many encounters more of a weapon retention challenge than a weapon deployment challenge, but it still took hours and an awful lot of food coloring "cuts" to make him a believer.
Don't get me wrong, I carry, but how pervasive is the feeling that a sidearm is a "magic charm that protects me from harm"?

[tyr_shadowblade]

Originally Posted by Jack M

Don't get me wrong, I carry, but how pervasive is the feeling that a sidearm is a "magic charm that protects me from harm"?

It is so common that many instructors refer to this mentality as "gun fu."

Some folks, typically out of shape blobs and stickboys, like to think of their Kel Tec as a magic wand that will instantly make any bad guy wet himself and scamper away sniveling . . . but that only works on punks . . . punks who aren't on meth or crack.

"Gun fu" is basically a form of denial, as well as an excuse for the lazy to avoid training.

[mwerner]

This may be true in general among the untrained, or among those who don't train in any sort of realistic situation.
"I've got a shotgun. I don't even have to aim!"

"I'm a black belt!"

"I can bench 350 pounds for reps!"

Yadda, yadda.

[Terry Newton]

I recommend the old video "Surviving Edged Weapons." There is a section starring Dan Inosanto, who is armed with a large butcher knife. This drill involved numerous officers who one at a time were supposed to conduct a field interview to determine what the suspect was doing and act appropriately.

At an unknown point Dan drew on all of them and "cut" them to pieces. Not b/c they were bad officers or were using bad techniques, but b/c they were behind the curve when the attack started. All tried to draw with Dan charging and none were successful.

[tyr_shadowblade]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

I recommend the old video "Surviving Edged Weapons."

Everyone on PracTac needs to see: Surviving Edged Weapons.

[Longtrang]

Originally Posted by Jack M

Doing a little knife training with one of my nephews. No matter what tactical situation was mentioned, his first response was always "Well, since I got my CCW, I'd just shoot the guy!"
A little annoyed, I proceeded to put him in a number of, "what good is that Kimber now?" situations, close quarter stuff. I explained the old adage about close range and/or multiple attackers making many encounters more of a weapon retention challenge than a weapon deployment challenge, but it still took hours and an awful lot of food coloring "cuts" to make him a believer.
Don't get me wrong, I carry, but how pervasive is the feeling that a sidearm is a "magic charm that protects me from harm"?

I hear that all the time especially in my line of work. Gun ho, SF, Merc wannabies litter the contract security business. Again, in most defensive situations there will not be time to get the weapon out if attacked. Carrying a weapon gives you a chance, a slim one but a chance none the less. Training and practice increase your odds but in the end it's all just one big crap-shoot. If training and weapon quality were the magic wand that lets anyone survive, Special Forces (Seals, MSOC, whatever) would never get killed. Think about this too, those SF guys that get killed are not offed by other countries' SF, they get killed by poorly trained (if at all), poorly equipped locals. Before any one says anything, I know civilians defending themselves and SF guys getting killed are apples and oranges, my point was that regardless of your equipment and training there is no one perfect solution for every situation and even the best of us fall to the untrained.

[stealthchaser13]

Originally Posted by tyr_shadowblade

Everyone on PracTac needs to see: Surviving Edged Weapons.

very interesting video...

[InfidelShootist]

I taught a couple of grandmaster IPSC shooters about reaction time lag and disarms one day.They were shocked to say the least.I ended up exchanging advanced shooting lessons for weapon retention and disarm lessons.I learned alot and ended up training with these guys for a few years.

Shooting and martial art as in weapon retention and plain old hand to hand combat go together.I don't know if the old saying 98% of gunfights happen within 6 feet is accurate or not.Regardless many violent encounters start off very close.Anyone untrained in weapon retention and unskilled at fighting unarmed is at a disadvantage compared to someone skilled at both.

[Watchful]

I've told this story before, and apologize to the two of you who remember it.

Back in 1984, I worked with a pretty hip bunch of guys, and we loved to beat the crap out of each other after hours. One guy, who never really fit in and liked to goad everybody else, sat in on the group one night as we talked about assorted hand-to-hand stuff.

He told us we were all nuts. All that crap wouldn't save us, because he could just draw out his gun and shoot any one of us. Since I was already four or five pony bottles of Old Style in, I felt pretty funky. I told him to go ahead. Pull the gun. Let's see it.

He tried to backpedal, but I wasn't having it. I began to push and shove him, and said I wanted to see his firearm. I eventually put him down to the ground and wanted to know when he would pull the weapon. I let him up, and said that unlike him, we were--all of us--ready to go at a moment's notice. He, obviously, was not--and that shooting the mouth off is not the same as shooting a firearm off.

Clearly, I would not recommend that to anyone, because of course you will eventually run into the guy who has a weapon and is more than willing to call your bluff. But this guy, in particular, was a skinny punk ass. I can't imagine what profession he's in today, but he didn't last too long with us.

So the gun fu mentality has been around a loooong long time.

[Watchful]

Originally Posted by InfidelShootist

Anyone untrained in weapon retention and unskilled at fighting unarmed is at a disadvantage compared to someone skilled at both.

'Nuff said. Anyone dare to try proving this wrong? I can't.

[kozak6]

I'd say "Magic Knife Syndrome" is more common.

Because knives are cheaper and easier to carry (legally and physically), it's more likely for someone to slip one into a pocket with the same magic charm reasoning.

Furthermore, because it's so much easier, someone is more likely to carry a knife with no training at all.

On another note, if someone gets the jump on you, you are in trouble whether you have a knife or a gun.

Originally Posted by tyr_shadowblade

Everyone on PracTac needs to see: Surviving Edged Weapons.

Good call.

[Esav Benyamin]

Magic Knife Syndrome is also going to be more characteristic of the young guys, who are less realistic about what self-defense itself really means.

[stealthchaser13]

oh yeah...something I just thought of...police are taught a 21 foot rule. Anyone with an edged weapon that is 21 feet or less away from you can close on you faster than you can recognize a threat, draw your weapon, and fire 2 round center of mass. (thats why tazers have a 21 foot range)

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...-valid-Part-1/

(just thought this info would be a good go-along with the video info...)

[amok_hodges]

You encounter this at least twice in every post that has ever been made on every self defense forum on the net.

[singularity35]

You mean the folder I'm carrying does not automatically mean I will win a fight? LOL, yes magic gun and magic knife syndrome is much too common In my experience as a Range Officer who gets to instruct a lot of businessmen who buy guns for protection.

[Mannlicher]

Jack, a lot of folks feel that if you let your antagonist within grappling distance, you have made a serious tactical error.

.....but you are right. You can't be a successful carpenter if a hammer is the only tool in your kit.

[HeavyHanded]

Originally Posted by Jack M

Doing a little knife training with one of my nephews. No matter what tactical situation was mentioned, his first response was always "Well, since I got my CCW, I'd just shoot the guy!"
A little annoyed, I proceeded to put him in a number of, "what good is that Kimber now?" situations, close quarter stuff. I explained the old adage about close range and/or multiple attackers making many encounters more of a weapon retention challenge than a weapon deployment challenge, but it still took hours and an awful lot of food coloring "cuts" to make him a believer.
Don't get me wrong, I carry, but how pervasive is the feeling that a sidearm is a "magic charm that protects me from harm"?

It's rampant, and usually accompanied by a complete ignorance of when deadly force is justified in the first place. Commonly accompanied by a belief that just waving a handgun around will take care of most problems. Overconfident and clueless, most of them thankfully will never get a wake-up call.

[Watchful]

Originally Posted by stealthchaser13

oh yeah...something I just thought of...police are taught a 21 foot rule. Anyone with an edged weapon that is 21 feet or less away from you can close on you faster than you can recognize a threat, draw your weapon, and fire 2 round center of mass. (thats why tazers have a 21 foot range)

FYI, not a rule. It's a police awareness and response training drill. Calling it a "rule" (i.e., something that is always the case) will take you down some conversational rabbit holes you won't ever want to go.

[mwerner]

There's a rather old video we've been shown in training for many years now. A trooper (as I recall) who has stopped 3 Hispanic gentlemen who, unknown to the officer, are drug "mules".
At one point, the BGs realize that the stop is going badly and they are going to be searched... One (much smaller than the trooper) tackles the officer around the waist, covering his gun.
The three take him down, get his gun, and kill him.

The officer made many mistakes, of course. Not controlling three individuals from the start for one.
However, he had no response whatever to being tackled. A simple wrestling "sprawl" maneuver would have put the guy into the concrete and the officer could have then drawn down on the bunch.

[tyr_shadowblade]

Originally Posted by Esav Benyamin

Magic Knife Syndrome is also going to be more characteristic of the young guys, who are less realistic about what self-defense itself really means.

I recently acquired a R W Lowe custom that is +3