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1095 quinch oil ?? trans oil ok

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by metalmole, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. metalmole

    metalmole

    73
    Jun 3, 2010
    Hi, new here been reading quite abit...ready to heat treat my first carbon steel knife...1095, would atf trans fluid be ok, I have used it on 01 before on small parts.....???
     
  2. mgysgthath

    mgysgthath

    Dec 15, 2009
  3. sunshadow

    sunshadow

    Oct 2, 2006
    Please read the stickies, especially Kevin Cashen's "working with the 3 steel types" particularly the section on hypereuctechtoid steel, your question is answered there. Briefly stated, with transmission fluid you will get mostly pearlite (and extremely toxic fumes and flareup) your knives will be able to skate a file off of the pearlite yet will be too soft to hold an edge for any real cutting. do not use transmission fluid to quench anything

    -Page
     
  4. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    I wish everybody would get into the habit of reading MSDS sheets for any and all chemicals they plan on using in their shop.... especially when you may end up inhaling, ingesting, or getting said product into clothes or on your skin.
     
  5. mgysgthath

    mgysgthath

    Dec 15, 2009
    Could you please elaborate on that, how it pertains to the particular chemicals mentioned here? I've thus far only used Canola but am working on getting a pail of P50 or HQK, and any health concerns would be nice to know about (aside from proper ventilation).
     
  6. metalmole

    metalmole

    73
    Jun 3, 2010
    Well I can't say I remember the last time I ingested any kind of oils I have worked with in the last 30 years, but I will give it a good think. I am very well aware of MSDS warnings and also have a common sense thing going for me that has kept me out of harms way.....


    OK I understand about the 1095 steel needing to cool very fast when quinching, just didnt know if I could wing it with something else. So how would one make up some water/brime quinch medium or would the canola oil be the only thing to use in a pinch ?, and thanks for the help....
     
  7. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Please...it is QUENCHING !
     
  8. metalmole

    metalmole

    73
    Jun 3, 2010
    Thanks for the correction Stacy, care to give some advise on how is the best way to QUENCH 1095 without the specialty oils......
     
  9. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Without an engineered oil you have two choices for 1095.

    One is to use a brine quench - one pound of rock salt in 5-6 quarts of water. Heat the water to 100-120F.

    The other is to used canola at 100-120F.
     
  10. metalmole

    metalmole

    73
    Jun 3, 2010
    Thanks Stacy, I guess Im off to WalMart to get some canola oil, just trying to get a blade done tonight for a friend. I have heat treated 440c with excellent results using the air quench between aluminum stock method...I guess I will order some 1084 if I do more carbon blades.........
     
  11. Danbo

    Danbo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 28, 1999
    Yeah, really. Who does this guy think he is, Matt Lamey? :p ;):D

    (just hackin on ya, Matt. don't be beatin me up) :D
     
  12. Danbo

    Danbo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 28, 1999
    Now, for the serious answer. Listen to Stacy. If you don't have access to something like Parks 50, use the Canola oil. The brine quench will work, too. Just might be a bit more exciting(read, possible cracked blades).
     
  13. Rick Marchand

    Rick Marchand Donkey on the Edge Moderator

    Jan 6, 2005
    Ode To The Quinch

    When I'm in the shop and fixin' to quinch,
    It's not done with oil but rather a pinch.
    With my guts a rumblin' and legs held tight,
    I stand there, getting my bevels just right.
    It's not as easy as you may think
    I let out a squeaker and boy, does it stink.
    Quinching, my friend, is a bit of an art,
    If you hold it too long, it ends in a shart.

    I'm not trying to center you out, metalmole. My tomfoolery is quite indiscriminate. I am just feeling creative.:thumbup:

    Canola is the way to go aside from engineered quenchant. Good thinking on searching out some 1084. It will serve you better than 1095.

    Welcome to the forum!!!

    Rick
     
  14. DCL Knives

    DCL Knives KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    761
    Jun 6, 2012
    Had me laughing out loud after reading that:D
     
  15. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    MSD Sheets should pertain to ANY chemical used in your shop. It's just a good habit. As for ATF, not all are created exactly equal, but a couple MSDSs I've read describe harmful vapors and avoiding inhalation. As for p50 and HQK, they have MSDSs that should be readily available via a quick Google search.
     
  16. knife to a gunfight

    knife to a gunfight KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 17, 2007
    I probably could have left "ingestion" off the list, but you'd be surprised at how many people accidentally ingest toxic chemicals. Sometimes it's as simple as eating food without washing your hands after handling a chemical or any other product that might seep into the skin.

    And common sense isn't so common... you'd be surprised what I see on an almost daily basis working in a steel mill and watching 60 year old men with 40 years of experience do something that my 3 year old would know better about.
    Not that it's any reflection on you, as I don't know you. I just wouldn't recommend using ATF to quench knife blades when there are far better (and safter) alternatives.
     
  17. someoldfart

    someoldfart Gold Member Gold Member

    238
    Sep 1, 2009
    Best post of the day!

    Thank you sir.
     
  18. mgysgthath

    mgysgthath

    Dec 15, 2009
    Thanks, that's what I thought you meant but wasn't sure.

    Also, lol @ Rick's creativeness :)
     
  19. Karl B. Andersen

    Karl B. Andersen KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 27, 2003
    What does he mean by "quinch"?

    I thought it was "quince".:D

     
  20. John Frankl

    John Frankl

    Oct 16, 2001
    Funny how often this comes up. Also funny that it's not limited to bladesmithing.

    I am doing a little brewing/fermenting of late, and all the same stuff happens. Companies go to great lengths to isolate and produce the proper yeast strains for different types of alcohols. They provide a bunch of free information about which yeast to use for what to get the best results. And, without fail, there are many who say stuff like "Well my old grandpappy never used nothin but bread yeast and we still go good and drunk off his stuff." Which is the equivalent of saying "Well I just stuck it in bacon grease and diesel and it got so hard a file skated over it."

    Now I know there are a lot of steps in between dedicated quenching oils and bacon grease, and that canola oil is one them. I also know there is no one right answer. In the end, it really just comes down to what your goals are and how far you want to take things. That said, (almost) no one would use canola oil to lubricate their car's engine, nor would they use ATF in their deep fryers. Oils do have specific applications.
     

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