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Carbon V Steel vs 1095 Steel?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by charlesbjr, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. charlesbjr

    charlesbjr

    397
    Mar 8, 2006
    :confused: Hey guys, maybe you can help? I am not that good with telling the difference between all grades of steel. As such, does anyone know the difference between the Cold Steel Carbon V steel and a 1095 steel? If so, is one better than the other?

    Thanks!
     
  2. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    The following information came straight from Mike Stewart emailed to me personally. I've always held on to it.

    "CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel used by Case for many years and Carbon V are the very same steel.

    It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

    It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

    Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

    This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and Mike Stewart for the Old Mamba. Everyone used it until 1988.

    Sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. No mill would duplicate the steel because the patent was still in effect.

    For a time everyone switched to other steels.

    A few years back Case and Camillus found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry of the old CV steel and they ordered a crap load of it.

    Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.

    This is an excellent cutlery steel and will out perform 1095."

    STR
     
  3. charlesbjr

    charlesbjr

    397
    Mar 8, 2006
    Thats great info.

    This will help me pick the blade I want (or narrow it down).

    Thanks!
     
  4. Physics

    Physics

    332
    Mar 20, 2005
    Wow! Couldn't ask for a better answer than that. Great info, STR. Thanks! :)
     
  5. Keith Montgomery

    Keith Montgomery

    May 9, 2000
    That is too general a term. What should be said is that 0170-6 can outperform 1095. Just because one knife is made from 0170-6/50100-B that certainly doesn't guaranty that it will be a better knife than one made from 1095. As in all cases the heat treatment will be the main decider in which will be the better blade. One should not think that just because one knife is made from a potentially better steel that it will necessarily end up with a better blade.
     
  6. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    Keith. Its a quote. I'm just the messenger. My experiences with both steels has been great and I like both. Many factors determine a good, great or very bad knife in the end though. So on that I do agree.

    STR
     
  7. Keith Montgomery

    Keith Montgomery

    May 9, 2000
    Sorry, I didn't realize that it was still part of the quote.
     
  8. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    Yes. I changed it to third person where I refer to Mike but those are his words in the quotes describing the steel.

    STR
     
  9. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Why would Mike Stewart know what Case, Cammilus and Cold Steel use today for their carbon steel? Sorry for my ignorance, but who is this guy who works for all three companies?
     
  10. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    Mike has a long history in the knife industry so it would be a volumous reply to cover all of it. He started out being famous I believe when he started BlackJack knives. Then he worked for Marbles and revived their knife sales by bringing their knife division back to life and then later like circa late 2001-early 2002 he started Bark River knives. He knows what he is talking about and the information is correct.

    STR
     
  11. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    Here is his exact reply to me on a similar question from a past thread. This is the whole reply without editing or corrections. I should have used it in the first place but tried to shorten it by paraphrasing a bit.

    "I noticed that you and a number of folks have been guessing what this is.

    I have posted this before but it appears that a lot of folks have not seeen it.

    CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel and Carbon V are all the very same steel.

    This is not a mistery steel. It is not a new steel. It had been made by the hundreds of tons For many many ywears and used by ALL the major Knife Companies for Decades.

    It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

    It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

    Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

    This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and me for the Old Mamba. We all used it until 1988.

    sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. None of us could get it and no other mill would duplicate it because the papent was still in effect.

    We all switched to other steels.

    A couple of years ago Case and Camillus Found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry and they ordered a heat lot--+/_ 100,000 lbs.

    Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.

    This was an excellent steel and will out perform 1095. I have used it in a lot of the early Blackjacks. I still have some and made our goloks and Northwind Swords from it.

    I have no idea why this question keeps comming up. All of this is common knowledge in the industry.

    I suspect that nobody will be using it except for Case, Cammilius, Becker, Westerm and Cold Steel.

    As I'm sure you know that Case makes thier knives and Camillius makes all of the other brands that I just mentioned.

    I doubt that you will have any better luck relaying this info either. It dosen't seem that folks want the truth.

    It's more fun for folks to speculate....................."
     
  12. wire eddge

    wire eddge

    525
    Mar 17, 2003
    The newest Marbles fixed blades (which are made by Camillus) are being made with the steel also
    FYI.
     
  13. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Mr. Stewart may very well have been correct at one time due to insider knowledge, but since he doesn't work for the three firms, he may not know what's in CaseCV or CarbonV now. Don't forget, one of the main reasons for a "secret steel" is so the company can change formulation w/o alarming their loyal customers.

    If Stewart is correct, some of the Cammilus CarbonV must also been rolled for pocket knives, since Cold Steel had a line of CarbonV pocket knives a few years back. Mr. Stewart is incorrect on one point, Case pocket knives are not just made by Case, some patterns have been made by cammilus and other firms over the years, although from what I've read, the current CV line is by Case. I belive that some Buck carbon steel pocket knives have been made by Cammilus, maybe they might be Carbon V :)
     
  14. W.T. Beck

    W.T. Beck

    Jul 9, 2001
    My guess is that Mike Stewart knows what he is talking about. He is one of the best production knife makers in the country right now.

    I just wish Mr. Stewart would offer more models for those of us who like knives with guards. Most Bark River knives have little or no guard.
     
  15. STR

    STR Knifemaker/Moderator Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
    I heard that before they went out of business Schrade made Bucks slip joints . I don't know who does it now.

    STR
     
  16. upnorth

    upnorth

    Nov 25, 2006
    To STR. I bumped into this thread by accident and found it facinating. I bought the last Becker Brute in western Canada just before Camillus went under a few years back. So I would lay odds that I have a chunk of that old steel formula. It sounds like good stuff. What I'm wondering about, and what my questions is, how was the Camillus heat treating ? Were they good in the end ? Getting sloppy ? Thank you.
     
  17. The Mastiff

    The Mastiff

    Apr 21, 2006
    I'm not STR but I recall very well those times and the loss of one of the old greats in the industry.

    I can't say or make comment about the last day, or weeks or whatever but the Camillus heat treating on their version of the steel, which they called 0170-6 was excellent right up to the end. They also made Beckers line back then using the same steel and they had a great reputation, as they ( Becker) still does with current production .Consistently excellent performers now made by KaBar using 1095 CroVan.!

    Ever wonder what happened to the rest of Camillus's stock of that steel? I always did. http://www.agrussell.com/a-g-russell-sandbox-bowie/p/RUhhhU712BKOD/

    Still great stuff!

    :)

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  18. me2

    me2

    Oct 11, 2003
    Been using carbon V a lot lately in the form of an old CS Scalper, and it is pretty good. I don't have any 1095 to compare it to though. Very sharp edge, holds it well, no chipping even when accidentally hitting a brick paver. I got the knife from a friend when he moved, so I rebeveled the edge down to 12 degrees per side with a microbevel from the 15 degree per side slots in the Sharpmaker. Excellent kitchen and utility knife.
     
  19. KevinOubre

    KevinOubre

    282
    Sep 6, 2011
    I think it depends on what carbon v you get. I know the Cold Steel carbon v is something like 1085. However as STR has shown in his posts, more than one company has sold knives with carbon v as the steel name.
     
  20. Alberta Ed

    Alberta Ed

    Jun 29, 1999
    Mike Stewart is one of the most knowledgeable knife makers around, and I wouldn't question his remarks.
     

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