1. Welcome to the New & Improved BladeForums. New software info here. Please report problems in Tech Support, and read existing threads before posting! - Spark
  2. I've changed the default forum style to Flat Awesome based on feedback. Don't like it? Click here to change how the forums look Feedback on this is welcome here.

"Ceramic" Coating

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Greshapa, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. Greshapa

    Greshapa

    24
    Feb 7, 2011
    Sup dudes,

    I recently got a Ceramic coating on my Millie by a local coating company (Dylans Coatings, in Pittsburgh) who do powder coat/blasting and other stuff

    But after they did my knife i was b/sing with him for a few minutes and he mentioned that the oven he bakes the coating on with is around 1500 degrees(i assume F).

    Could it have taken the temper out of my knife? it seemed like it sharpened up easier than normal, or maybe im just paranoid.

    Does anyone know if this could have taken the temper out of my millie?

    Thanks!
     
  2. tiguy7

    tiguy7 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 25, 2008
    Powder coats usually bake at about 350 degrees F for about 30 min. The thermoplastic resins can cure under these time/temperature parameters. The resins polymerize and turn the coating into a giant macromolecule. Particle vapor deposition or chemical vapor deposition involves vaporizing a ceramic such as TiN or TiAlN and depositing it on a blade in a vacuum chamber. The temperatures required to vaporize the ceramics are quite high, but the entire vacuum chamber does not attain the melting temperature of said ceramics. Many blades are coated with cured plastic or ceramics, but if properly done, the temper of the blade is not affected.
     
  3. Greshapa

    Greshapa

    24
    Feb 7, 2011
    Thanks for the info man. Hopefully the night-sweats will stop now and i can rest in peace knowing my military is okay!
     
  4. jforbush

    jforbush

    Sep 29, 2007
    1500!!! WOW!!! I do Cerakote work which is Ceramic based and it cures at 250 degrees for two hours....not even close to messing with a temper. I really hope that the guy did not use 1500 degrees!!
     
  5. richard j

    richard j

    Apr 1, 2007
    i woud be finding out exactly what he did. since it is ceramic there is a chance the temp had to be higher. it might be good info to know if anyone else wants to get the same thing done.
     
  6. Hard H2O

    Hard H2O

    Aug 10, 2007
    What purpose would the ceramic coating serve?
     
  7. Greshapa

    Greshapa

    24
    Feb 7, 2011
    He says that first he has to bead blast it at 40 PSI, then he puts a coat of the ceramic coating on(didnt say what brand or anything) and lets it dry to the touch. And then he bakes it, over night around 1300-1500F

    I love spydercos but my main gripe with them is finger prints, and i dont really have this problem with any of my other knives. So i usualy get them coated, my Tenacious has a translucent "Black Chrome" powder coating(which i wasnt a big fan of so i switched to ceramic) and the millie has the ceramic coating in desert tan. The ceramic has a really nice kind of bumpy texture, and is extremely tough. I think the ceramic coating is really meant for high heat environments, he said it can withstand 2500F+. It looks and feels great on the knife though. My only problem with it so far is that things like dirt/mud/Stroping compound get stuck into the tiny bumps on the surface and once its in there its really hard to get out.

    http://img31.imageshack.us/i/downsized0426111201.jpg/ - millie

    http://img810.imageshack.us/i/downsized0426111207.jpg/ - tenacious
     
  8. jimnolimit

    jimnolimit

    Oct 28, 2009
    if he baked the blade over night at 1300-1500F, the original heat treat is shot.

    is the blade S30V?

    find out if the ceramic coat will withstand the temperatures/conditions of a heat treat. i would look into having the blade re-heat treated with the ceramic coat still on it. i would give paul bos heat treating a call (idaho).

    p.s. you should have did more homework on what's involved in ceramic coating before having your blade done.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  9. pwet

    pwet

    Feb 13, 2009
    this is crucible data sheet for S30V.

    http://faq.customtacticals.com/datasheets/s30v.pdf

    acoording to this, your wonderfull local coating company, wonderfully screwed your HT ...

    the higher they recommend to temper s30v is 1000°F you are way above. he probably didn't fully anneal the blade but you probably have dropped more than a couple of points of hardness.

    you didn't notice anything when they did the same to your tenacious ??? and the mili still takes an edge and holds it ???

    this said i'm no knifemaker nor metallurgist .... but from the very few i think i understood about steel and HT thats not good at all.

    and if i were i'd be severely pissed. when i don't know what i'm doing i don't do, especialy for a fee ... and again if i where you i'd send them the bill for a replacement blade.
     
  10. jimnolimit

    jimnolimit

    Oct 28, 2009
    spyderco doesn't sell replacement blades. the OP could have his blade re-heat treated, but i don't know if the ceremic coating will interfere with the HT or if it will stand up to the heat treat conditions. his best bet is to call paul bos heat treating (idaho) and talk to them.
     
  11. pwet

    pwet

    Feb 13, 2009
    for US products ? ? ?

    when i asked for my stretch i'm pretty sure sal said they kept some inventory for US made products ... could be wrong but it's worth a call.

    anyway if you can get it HT'd by a custom knifemaker you may get a more precise HT than from factory, probably not all loss. . .
     
  12. pwet

    pwet

    Feb 13, 2009
    btw you should ask this in the knifemaker section, you'll probably get a safer answer and someone may offer you to re HT your blade if it's actually screwed ...
     
  13. jimnolimit

    jimnolimit

    Oct 28, 2009
    according to spyderco's website, they don't replace blades. they might keep a few blades on hand to replace any that fall under warranty due to manufacturing defects. what happened to your stretch?

    spyderco might be able to re-heat treat the OP's blade, but he will have to ask them and probably have to pay for it. IMO he might as well have the blade re-heat treated by paul bos's heat treat company.
     
  14. pwet

    pwet

    Feb 13, 2009
    no big deal with my stretch, i have just used it quite a lot, thinned, scratched pretty badly with a XXC plate, lost the tip once (kissed the floor). i just wanted to get a new blade...

    now i've refinished and acid etched the blade, sanded the CF smooth and i still use it a lot.
     
  15. jforbush

    jforbush

    Sep 29, 2007
    The heat treat is GONE!!!!! I do Cerakote work which is ceramic based and I only have to get up to 250 degrees. I have done Sypderco's, a lot of Sypderco's and can tell you that the money you spent on this coating is worth more than the knife. I would email the guy and request your money back as well as money to buy a new knife because yours is shot. This guy should have know that what he was doing was going to destroy a knife!!!

    What did you pay for this and what EXACTLY did he put on your knife???
     
  16. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    1) Find out exactly what the coater did to the knife.
    2) There are ceramic coatings which cure at 250-350°F.
    3) There are also ceramic coatings which must be cured at ~1500°F
    4) If your blade was cured at 1500°F for more than an hour, bend over and kiss your heat treat goodbye.
     
  17. doctorsuds

    doctorsuds

    102
    Feb 4, 2011
    Having seen the blade in question myself, I'm almost 100% certain that there was little (if any) noticeable change in the hardness. The blade took a very fine edge upon resharpening, and seems to be holding quite well.
     
  18. yoda4561

    yoda4561

    May 28, 1999
    Heat treat is 100% shot, even mild steel can take and hold an okay edge as long as you don't cut anything hard with it. You still have the high wear resistance of the carbides but don't be surprised if your blade performs oddly or breaks unexpectedly in the future. Your coater is probably unfamiliar with heat treating for knives and firearms and that high temp coating processes are unsuitable for them. He put on something like you'd find for exhaust components in high performance automobiles where heat treatment isn't an issue. This is basically a heat cured 100% ceramic. The "ceramic" coatings for knife/gun use are usually a hexagonal boron nitride based solid lubricant, suspended in a low temp thermally cured organic coating (like 3400 series gunkote).
     

Share This Page