code 3 is out of control......

Jaxx said:
I may be blind to this as I've so far never been "gig'd" but I don't remember seeing any specific procedure or course of action for properly disputing a violation, should one think that he or she has been inproperly charged with an offense (forum violation or warning). Since this community is growing, and more rules are needed to maintain an orderly forum, and more "gigs" are being issued in the course of maintaining the civility... Maybe it's time to develope a set of procedures for all forumites to specifically follow in the event of future situations similar to the situation between valleytinworks and CODE 3. Maybe similar to a "traffic court", a forum for appealing these infractions? Either way respect and cool tempers should be maintained, but with a proper course of action for disputes to be "argued" in front of a judging or ruling panel of Mods, perhaps seriously fast flame-ups on these types of issues may be avoided...

Jaxx:cool:
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Good point. I'm not in charge of anything around here, but I have a suggestion, culled from comments along the way during the recent firestorm.

First, if you have a dispute with a moderator, contact him. Whether it's something else that's happened or an infraction you've been charged with. Remember BF members are all over the world, certainly all over the US, different time zones, different personal schedules. This means at least 12 hours before you can expect a response.

Second, if you get no response, or disagree with the one you do get, contact a supermod or Spark. They know that someone outside the immediate argument may be able to view it dispassionately.

Third, if everyone tells you to go, ummm, away, then stop and think: you may have been wrong all along. But it is only at this point that you are really justified in going public with it.
 
I'm not sure I've ever heard the phrase, "hogging the Winkler," before, but I sure plan to use it from now on.
 
I wonder if that fact that paying customers that entered into a contract to use the forsale section under certain set of rules, have not been given a chance to opt out with a refund, now that the rules in mid-contract have been changed has been noticed by anyone else? Is this ok? Good business practice? Akin to changeing the terms of a lease part way through?

I also wonder if customers of the brick and mortor store front that come in money in hand get sent packing if they talk out loud in the wrong part of the store? If a customer walks up to the Axe counter and asks about a knife do they get a infraction? :D Ask the wrong sales girl just one more time about your Axe buddie and you are GONE!:eek: How are paying forum customers different from RL customers?

I think a business owner has some obligation to a paying customer and I am not completely sure that those obligations are being met here. Maybe they are? I would be interested in some thoughts on this.

I mean if a paying customer buys some thread space to sell stuff why can he not reasonably use that space as he sees fit? He did after all PAY for it.

Anyway I don't feel to strongly about any of this stuff. I would just like to hear some thoughts on these ideas.

Not trying to bust any balls...just asking ok?
 
Guyon said:
I'm not sure I've ever heard the phrase, "hogging the Winkler," before, but I sure plan to use it from now on.
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At last, at last (tears of joy...)!

Someone has seen the beauty of my dry, yet unsubtle humor.
 
Justabuyer said:
I mean if a paying customer buys some thread space to sell stuff why can he not reasonably use that space as he sees fit? He did after all PAY for it.
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Being able to sell on BFC with a Gold or Platinum membership is a privilege, not a right. It is a right that is open to modification as the Admin. sees fit. People were abusing the privilege they were given and changes needed to be made.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Being able to sell on BFC with a Gold or Platinum membership is a privilege, not a right. It is a right that is open to modification as the Admin. sees fit. People were abusing the privilege they were given and changes needed to be made.
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I respectfully Disagree. If it was free it would be a privilege. Since it is paid for it is a service like hiring a baby sitter or paying to have your laundry done. Its reasonable for the customer to have certain expectations of service.

I am curious if this is the opinion shared by all mods and Spark? That Gold and platinum members are merely purchasing a privilege that can be denied or taken away with out cause or with out re-course as the admin sees fit? I am not saying thats is the wrong approach, I am just wondering if you are all in agreement on this point?

Once again no disrespect meant and I fully intend to abide by the rules going forward!
 
I don't see my Platinum membership as buying me the right to sell here at Bladeforums. It does, but that's not why I chipped in. It's my way of supporting the forums.

I had a couple of knife magazine subscriptions, and picked up other magazines and publications when I liked the contents. After I got active here, I dropped all that, and put a fraction of the money I'd been spending on paper to help pay for what I got out of the forums -- much more than the magazines were giving me.

That this also got me access to selling was a bonus for my contribution, not one I use, either. For those who used to come here to sell and not otherwise contribute, the sales forums were a bandwitdth cost that did nothing to support themselves, let alone anything else here. That's why the present membership structure includes selling privileges.

But those selling privileges were always subject to rules that were always subject to change. Your membership did not come with a guarantee that time & policy, for you, would stand still for a year.

---

Incidentally, something else you brought up reminds me of a friend of mine. He used to hang out at the convenience store across the street. He'd buy coffee or sometimes lunch, and stand by the mgazine racks drinking and eating, and talking to employees, sometimes distracting them from their work. Eventually, the manager asked him not to hang out there anymore.

Paying customer. Overstayed his welcome. If you come here for conversation, it doesn't have to cost you. If it's worth the membership fee to be able to sell, that still leaves you subject to regulations. And if you frequent a store where you don't need a membership, it's still up to the proprietor if there's something about your presence he doesn't want hanging around. Even if you do spend good money there.
 
That Gold and platinum members are merely purchasing a privilege that can be denied or taken away with out cause or with out re-course as the admin sees fit?
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Far out. Strawman argument.

Your gold or platinum membership allows you to sell here. Why would Spark deny you personally that capability?

Not you, but everyone? Even less than likely.

Or are you seeing a modification of the rules as a violation of a contract (which doesn't exist)? The idea behind the rules is to make selling MORE effective by filtering out distractions.
 
The changes in the Exchange rules were not made to take away the right or privilege of selling knives; they were made to preserve and enhance that right or privilege. Everybody's input was solicited and we all discussed the problems and possible solutions right here in the Service & Support forum. That was not an arbitrary or unilateral change in the contract, and it was not designed to deprive the members of any right or privilege -- far from it.
 
You guys feel free to continue this discussion. I will be back in a few minutes. Gonna go "hog my Winkler"

(OldPhysics :thumbup: :D )
 
Esav most of what you say makes sense and I was serious when I asked my questions...and they were just that QUESTIONS. Cougars answer also is reasonable and admits to the fact that a contract exists. That is the entire basis of free trade. And of course it does exist.

Esav that is the only point that I would go out on a limb and say you are wrong on. When ever money changes hands there is a contract. If in the rules that I don't intend to read again tonight there is a clause that says the terms of use of the For Sale forum are subject to change with out notice or refund then that would be a very good thing.

I am glad you consider use of the For sale forums as trivial to your agenda, and I am also glad that you feel supporting blade forums has merit outside of that. This is a good attitude and no doubt a healthy one.

Don't dismiss or make light of Sparks customers that pay primarily to use the for sale forum and have an interest in the conduct of that service.

I think that perception of dismissal maybe part of some of what posters have been talking about in the thread.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The changes in the Exchange rules were not made to take away the right or privilege of selling knives; they were made to preserve and enhance that right or privilege. Everybody's input was solicited and we all discussed the problems and possible solutions right here in the Service & Support forum. That was not an arbitrary or unilateral change in the contract, and it was not designed to deprive the members of any right or privilege -- far from it.
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Great answer. Thank you
 
From the outside, this thread makes it look like the best way to have an infraction removed is to cause a fuss which I did not do initially.

With that in mind, I DEMAND SATISFACTION!
 
i apologize for selling amy-0's airbags on the forum to jaxx, although they were busse knife related they were kind of sensual... at least till jaxx ate them...
 
What's happening here, did I miss something? Someone fill me in. I was looking for everyone all day, and turns out you've been here. So what'd I miss? :confused:












Ohhh. I just read this whole thread. I'd like to say that I think each and everyone one of you is correct.
I BLAME PORKERSON!
 
For what it's worth, I'm a registered user who is considering upgrading to Gold to sell some stuff . . .

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I grew up being told that "the customer is always right." I've always expected employees to be held to a higher standard. After all, employees represent the company. They are the face which customers put on an organization, and their actions reflect on the company as a whole.
And I do understand the thankless nature of being a mod (BTDT), but you are still receiving compensation for your services, and you are, like it or not, the face of the company . . .

This has always been my attitude. I don't expect others to adopt the same attitude, but it is a factor in deciding whether or not to do business with them.

For me, the "tit for tat" behavior which I saw from some mods in this thread was very disturbing.
I understand that VTW started the thread, and that there were hot heads on both sides, but I was not impressed when mods used the behavior of normal forum members as an excuse to say or do some of the things they did, or to reply in kind. Mods should be above such retaliatory behavior.

But what was most disturbing to me was that after the "tit for tat" responses, some mods followed this up by issuing infractions.
They responded to harsh or accusatory responses in kind, and they followed their responses up with infractions.

I've always been a "he who is without sin" may cast the first stone, kind of guy . . . so when I see mods being sarcastic and disrespectful (whether or not to the degree as the offending party), I don't believe they have a right to issue infractions any more in that situation.
They are now a part of the argument, and should have no place to be issuing infractions.
Whey they do so, I see it as letting their power go to their head, and enforcing their words with their power/authority.

I hope that makes sense.

Disclaimer: I really didn't have any specific mods in mind when I wrote this. It is just my reaction to the overall thread.

VTW has been VERY generous to many on this forum, and I hate to think that a silly little misunderstanding will be responsible for him leaving the forum.
I hope that someone/anyone will get over their pride enough to apologize to him. Right or wrong, he is still your customer. And he is a customer who has brought in quite a bit of money for this company. For me, it would be a bad business decision to do nothing and let him go.
 
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