How sustainable is CRKT's business model?

[Hackenslash]

I've always admired the innovation that CRKT puts into some of it's designs. Things like the Rollock, Fulcrum and the Snap Lock are a blast to look at and play with. No other mainstream production company takes as many risks as CRKT. Yes, the sum of materials and workmanship rarely match the price, but that in and of itself isn't a recipe for disaster. I think CRKT will continue to do fine so long as the brick and mortar stores survive against on-line shopping.

Something to consider about CRKT: they've yet to become the target of the rampant cloning taking place overseas. Spyderco faces a strong challenge from clone knives that are 75% of Spyderco quality at 25% of the price. There are some truly excellent titanium framelock flippers that are getting up in ZTs face, some clones and some original designs. The interwebs abound with cloned Benchmades and Axis lock rip-offs. Other than some really crappy M16 type clones, CRKT has remained mostly uncopied. If you want a CRKT Fossil, you pretty much have to go buy a Fossil.

Eventually these clones may inadvertently hurt CRKT. Maybe they already have. When you can buy a genuine CRKT for $40 at Bass Pro or a nice PM2 clone for $40 online, eventually those clones will leach sales away from CRKT. As long as the brick and mortars survive with their need for recognizable brand images in blister packs, CRKT should be fine. The same could probably be said for Gerber. For now, at least, the brick and mortar retailers can't risk bringing in a clone or a counterfeit for fear of loosing their distribution rights with mainstream manufacturers.

Online shopping pays less homage to brand image recognition. That's where the clones and the no-name brands enjoy the most success.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go order a Fulcrum 2.

 

[WValtakis]

Crap, I forgot about the Rollock, Fulcrum and Ashworth Turtle...I have those too for the same reason as before. Lol

~Chip

 

[Danke42]

CRKT. Hey, 10 years ago people told me bearings would never be popular in knife making right on this very forum. People also laughed when i predicted that china was going to be the next big player in the knife market. Im not saying im the knife whisperer or anything but I am going to start working on my "I told you so" meme if in the event I am correct again.

Yes you should definitely keep some records if you're ever right about anything. That type of documentation can be invaluable.

 

[Mo2]

420 hc

420hc is superior in edge retention over 8cr13mov and 420hc bos heat treat is even better. this has been proven in cut testing. now with that said... what other aspect do you think is Superior in 8cr13mov?

here is just one test from one individual.

 

[Danke42]

Fulcrum is pretty cool. Glad it wasn't a one trick pony.

 

[Mo2]

Fulcrum is pretty cool. Glad it wasn't a one trick pony.

i hate this knife. i bought it thinking it would be great. its not. mechanism works fine, just the rest of it is crap.

i like those custom scales, who did that?

 

[Danke42]

i hate this knife. i bought it thinking it would be great. its not. mechanism works fine, just the rest of it is crap.

i like those custom scales, who did that?

Those are the original factory scales.

 

[Mo2]

Those are the original factory scales.

not on mine. i have a fulcrum 2
its a POS. heavy steel liners, plastic scales, the blade steel is the worst ive ever had.

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

If you want a CRKT Fossil, you pretty much have to go buy a Fossil.

I'm not posting this image for any reason other than I was reminded of it thanks to you! Also, the Fulcrum is awesome. Haven't had the chance to play with a Fulcrum 2.

 

[chucknduck]

Proven in cut tests? Sorry but I'm going to call BS on this one. You can say what you will about cut tests but bottom line cut tests are about as accurate and scientific as Vegas using rock paper scissors to calculate sports betting lines.

For one, it is well known edge geometry can play as much a role in wear resistance as the actual make-up of the steels. If you can show me a test where 420 beats out 8cr13 using the EXACT same knife blade, sharpening method, force (quantified), then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell ya....

8cr nearly doubles the amount of carbon in 420hc, more chromium, slightly less vanadium (microscopic difference), and more molybdenum and manganese. 8cr has many more carbide forming elements and is equal in hardness. Chemically, 8cr13 and AUS8 are nearly twins with identical performance. It would take VERY exacting scientific tests with massive amounts of data to be able to see a quantifiable difference between the two. And then you might see a few % points in difference. Do you also believe 420hc to be an improvement to AUS8? In reality, it is far closer to AUS4 or AUS6.

 

[sabre cat]

I dunno. When you have Gerber selling 06 FAST with 7cr17 fo $60 and SOG selling aus-8 for $60-90, is CRKT the worst value out there?

Maybe not.

There was a time when CRKT used AUS8 and AUS6 as their main blade steels. They were a stepping stone between gas station knives and companies like Spyderco and Benchmade. Later, they started dropping from AUS-6 to AUS-4 and a bunch of steels that American's never heard of. To make matters worse, their prices went up and we started seeing more products from China.

Bottom line, less knife for more money. It has seemed to work for them up to now but, my concern is all the new brands coming out of China. Companies like Kizer are certainly better than CRKT but what about Ganzo. I can see someone drooling over a Benchmade or Spyderco but passing them up and reaching for Ganzo over CRKT and SOG. Gerber too.

At least Gerber has brand recognition from all the multi-tools they supply to the military.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Yes you should definitely keep some records if you're ever right about anything. That type of documentation can be invaluable.

There is a record of it. Somewhere in my 8,000 + posts.

 

[Mo2]

Proven in cut tests? Sorry but I'm going to call BS on this one. You can say what you will about cut tests but bottom line cut tests are about as accurate and scientific as Vegas using rock paper scissors to calculate sports betting lines.

For one, it is well known edge geometry can play as much a role in wear resistance as the actual make-up of the steels. If you can show me a test where 420 beats out 8cr13 using the EXACT same knife blade, sharpening method, force (quantified), then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell ya....

8cr nearly doubles the amount of carbon in 420hc, more chromium, slightly less vanadium (microscopic difference), and more molybdenum and manganese. 8cr has many more carbide forming elements and is equal in hardness. Chemically, 8cr13 and AUS8 are nearly twins with identical performance. It would take VERY exacting scientific tests with massive amounts of data to be able to see a quantifiable difference between the two. And then you might see a few % points in difference. Do you also believe 420hc to be an improvement to AUS8? In reality, it is far closer to AUS4 or AUS6.

so your just being a keyboard expert now. yes, cut tests are not perfect, but even CATRA tests show 420hc better. all i know is that my 420hc lasts longer than 8cr and so do other people that do these tests.

sometimes science isnt as straight forward as you would like/think.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I've always admired the innovation that CRKT puts into some of it's designs. Things like the Rollock, Fulcrum and the Snap Lock are a blast to look at and play with. No other mainstream production company takes as many risks as CRKT. Yes, the sum of materials and workmanship rarely match the price, but that in and of itself isn't a recipe for disaster. I think CRKT will continue to do fine so long as the brick and mortar stores survive against on-line shopping.

Something to consider about CRKT: they've yet to become the target of the rampant cloning taking place overseas. Spyderco faces a strong challenge from clone knives that are 75% of Spyderco quality at 25% of the price. There are some truly excellent titanium framelock flippers that are getting up in ZTs face, some clones and some original designs. The interwebs abound with cloned Benchmades and Axis lock rip-offs. Other than some really crappy M16 type clones, CRKT has remained mostly uncopied. If you want a CRKT Fossil, you pretty much have to go buy a Fossil.

Eventually these clones may inadvertently hurt CRKT. Maybe they already have. When you can buy a genuine CRKT for $40 at Bass Pro or a nice PM2 clone for $40 online, eventually those clones will leach sales away from CRKT. As long as the brick and mortars survive with their need for recognizable brand images in blister packs, CRKT should be fine. The same could probably be said for Gerber. For now, at least, the brick and mortar retailers can't risk bringing in a clone or a counterfeit for fear of loosing their distribution rights with mainstream manufacturers.

Online shopping pays less homage to brand image recognition. That's where the clones and the no-name brands enjoy the most success.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go order a Fulcrum 2.

Definitely not trying to be the know it all a-hole. But there are actually counterfeits of the fossil. Maybe not the newer blue version but the old orange and black g10 version is counterfeited. There are actually a ton of crkt counterfeits of many of their different models. Even the cheap stuff. No idea why. I have never seen one in person, but some say they cant tell the difference and that they are faulty or backdoored actual crkt. But i dont think that is accurate. Unless it was a factory that was tasked with making protos and thus had access to the cad files. There is though very little talk of the fakes here on the forum. My only guess is that the people buying them simply arent enthusiasts and dont question the authenticity.

 

[PURPLEDC]

so your just being a keyboard expert now. yes, cut tests are not perfect, but even CATRA tests show 420hc better. all i know is that my 420hc lasts longer than 8cr and so do other people that do these tests.

sometimes science isnt as straight forward as you would like/think.

Are you talking buck? They Have a great heat treat on 420HC.

 

[Danke42]

not on mine. i have a fulcrum 2
its a POS. heavy steel liners, plastic scales, the blade steel is the worst ive ever had.

I'll have to find the box.

 

[chucknduck]

Yes science IS as straightforward as I think it is. It is based on proven facts, not on opinions and brand or personal bias. Lol. This has been hashed out and discussed numerous times for more than ten years. Just do a Google seach. It's all out there. Watch some of Cliff Stamps videos or posts.

Knife steels still have to follow all rules of physics. There isn't some "vudu magic" that allows materials to behave any differently just because they are used in a knife, or a broach, ball bearing, etc.. Heat treat and geometry can play as large a role as the material itself. But if geometry, heat treat, force, cutting media are all controlled then it comes down to chemical make-up of the steel.

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm not posting this image for any reason other than I was reminded of it thanks to you! Also, the Fulcrum is awesome. Haven't had the chance to play with a Fulcrum 2.

That is such an awesome looking knife. It makes me wonder what a full custom Flavio Ikoma must feel like. Mine is the older one with the small blade and the orange/black G10. This is definitely a knife that would benefit from a production custom version with upgraded materials!

 

[PURPLEDC]

Yes science IS as straightforward as I think it is. It is based on proven facts, not on opinions and brand or personal bias. Lol. This has been hashed out and discussed numerous times for more than ten years. Just do a Google seach. It's all out there. Watch some of Cliff Stamps videos or posts.

Knife steels still have to follow all rules of physics. There isn't some "vudu magic" that allows materials to behave any differently just because they are used in a knife, or a broach, ball bearing, etc.. Heat treat and geometry can play as large a role as the material itself. But if geometry, heat treat, force, cutting media are all controlled then it comes down to chemical make-up of the steel.

Not true. You can control the heat treat of three identical knives yet run them at different hardness. Take for instance Chris Reeve. He intentionally ran S30V and S35VN on the soft side for ease of sharpening. Some prefer those steels to be run at the highest RC possible for edge retention. So a 420HC knife from buck may perform completely different than a Kershaw with the same steel even if the geometry and edge refinement is identical. There is also Cryogenics that can have these materials behave differently as well.

 

[PURPLEDC]

That is such an awesome looking knife. It makes me wonder what a full custom Flavio Ikoma must feel like. Mine is the older one with the small blade and the orange/black G10. This is definitely a knife that would benefit from a production custom version with upgraded materials!

I almost bought a guardian angel at the Chicago custom knife show about 10 years ago. I was an idiot and passed thinking I would have an opportunity to buy another. Not only did I never find another but I would never have found one for the $750 being asked for it. It had exceptional fit and finish. The action was the first knife I ever handled with that guillotine drop action you find on many current flippers. What amazed me the most was that for a completely handmade knife It had precision and looks of a superlative CNC machined knife.