Is "Scales" a Misnomer?

[AFAustin]

Just a quick question for anyone with more knowledge of knife history than me: I came across an old thread in another forum where a gent stated that "scales" is actually not the correct term for a knife's handles. (He didn't say why or give any background on his thinking.) He believed that "covers" was the better term. I always thought "scales" and "covers" were both quite acceptable and interchangeable.

Anyone have some knowledge on this they could share?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[supratentorial]

The handle material are "covers". What much of the internet calls liners are "scales".

There are some terms on GEC's web site: http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/pocket-knives/knife-terminology/

 

[Half/Stop]

The handle material are "covers". What much of the internet calls liners are "scales".

There are some terms on GEC's web site: http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/pocket-knives/knife-terminology/

This is correct. I have heard both Bill and William Howard explain this on several of the tours I have been on at Great Eastern Cutlery.

 

[AFAustin]

Thanks, Jake and Ron. Much appreciated.

Andrew

 

[Bartleby]

England English=Scales. American English=lining. American terminology in the trade seems to have split away in preference to "covers" during the 1930's when factories were producing shell handled knives that were literally covering the frame. Similar to the use of "haft" rather than "handle" in the UK. For most people, the terms can be used as synonyms, like wrench or spanner.

 

[supratentorial]

England English=Scales. American English=Covers. American terminology in the trade seems to have split away in preference to "covers" during the 1930's when factories were producing shell handled knives that were literally covering the frame. Similar to the use of "haft" rather than "handle" in the UK. For most people, the terms can be used as synonyms, like wrench or spanner.

Do you have examples of ad copy with "scale" used instead of "covers" prior to 1930 in the USA? I have old examples of "handles" but I don't recall seeing "scale" in place of "covers" in ad copy from the USA.

I don't know the origin of "liners" but some old ad copy used "lining" instead of "scales".

 

[Bartleby]

I had mis-stated "covers" originally, amended to "lining".

 

[black mamba]

Jake, read the ad copy in post #20 in this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/amusing-knife-ads.1506859/

It mentions "division scale," which I take to mean the center liner. Case Bros. Little Valley knives were from 1900-1912 only, I think.

 

[supratentorial]

Jake, read the ad copy in post #20 in this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/amusing-knife-ads.1506859/

It mentions "division scale," which I take to mean the center liner. Case Bros. Little Valley knives were from 1900-1912 only, I think.

The ad copy is consistent with my 1st post.

In my second post I was attempting to politely dispute the claim that scale=cover but Bartleby mis-stated and he edited his post. In his post, I'd still change the word "liner" to "lining".

 

[Jack Black]

I always thought "scales" and "covers" were both quite acceptable and interchangeable.

I think this is true. All the Sheffield cutlers I've known have used the term 'scales', differentiating between 'inner scales' and 'outer scales' if necessary. I've also heard the term 'coverings' used, rather than 'covers'

 

[supratentorial]

For practical purposes, I think it's a matter of knowing your audience. If I was talking to a manufacturer, I'd use the words "covers" and "scales" (instead of scales and liners). On social media, I use the word liner. I still use cover (instead of scales) but I assume that it's pretty self explanatory.

 

[supratentorial]

I think this is true. All the Sheffield cutlers I've known have used the term 'scales', differentiating between 'inner scales' and 'outer scales' if necessary. I've also heard the term 'coverings' used, rather than 'covers'

This is consistent with what I said in my first post.

If I understand correctly, the OP is talking about the wood or stag or bone, not the metal behind them.

 

[Bartleby]

In his post, I'd still change the word "liner" to "lining".

Amended.

 

[supratentorial]

Amended.

Good post, Bartleby

Just a quick question for anyone with more knowledge of knife history than me: I came across an old thread in another forum where a gent stated that "scales" is actually not the correct term for a knife's handles. (He didn't say why or give any background on his thinking.) He believed that "covers" was the better term. I always thought "scales" and "covers" were both quite acceptable and interchangeable.

Anyone have some knowledge on this they could share?

Thanks,

Andrew

Some explanations from Eric at CSC.

Just an FYI, when I referred to "scale" I was referring to the liners. Scales and liners mean basically the same thing in the knife industry, handles are generally referred to as covers. I think at some point in the past there was a bit of a mix-up in collector terminology due to the fact that you can also put it another way by saying that the scales are what binds either side of the knife tang. This is why the covers on fixed blade hunting knives that are actually pinned to the tang (such as stag) are also referred to as scales. Nowadays many folks refer to pocket knife covers as scales, but if you were to go into any knife factory and ask what kind of "scales" they put on their trappers, you'd likely be met with a puzzled look and handed a pair of trapper liners
I hope I didn't just make things more confusing.

Eric

....Those are fantastic covers (not scales, scales are the liners, I REALLY wish people would stop calling the covers "scales" )

 

[supratentorial]

This 1930 ad copy uses "covering" for the handle material (i.e. bone, wood, stag). It uses both "lining" and "scale" for the metal parts behind the covering.

 

[black mamba]

The ad copy is consistent with my 1st post.

Spot on, Jake, I was pointing out some evidence to support you from that early time period. The term "division scale" was new to me, but I understood what they were talking about. The confusion in terminology has led me to pretty much use the terms "liners" and "covers," since "scales" is often misused.

 

[r redden]

I have always used the words liners and covers I have also on occasion used the word handles. I never heard the word scales used in knife terminology until I started lurking around BF a few years ago. I thought that was just what I scraped off of fish so I could cook them. However, it seems that the collectors of modern folders that post primarily in the General Discussion Forum use the term Scales for the covers on the modern folders exclusively. From that I believe that terminology is changing from covers to scales when folks are discussing modern cutlery.

 

[supratentorial]

Thank you, Jeff.

Randy, Also, I think the use of "scales" instead of covers is also popular among Swiss army knife enthusiasts online ...for as long as I can remember discussing knives online. I'd need to go through the literature to check the manufacturer's usage. But I took a quick look at an 1980s manufacturing booklet from Victorinox and they used the word "handles". I usually use the word "covers" or "handles".

 

[tongueriver]

Slight diversion but related maybe... We usually call the bolsters on both ends of a jack knife 'bolsters,' but at least some of the cutlers back in the day only used 'bolster' to describe the end from whence the blades originated. The other end could either be 'bare head,' or if encased in metal, that er... "bolster" would be called a 'cap,' instead. To be called a 'bolster,' it was necessary to have blades originating from that end of the knife, also. Sorry for the ramble; hope it was not completely irrelevant.

 

[supratentorial]

Thank you, Jeff.

Randy, Also, I think the use of "scales" instead of covers is also popular among Swiss army knife enthusiasts online ...for as long as I can remember discussing knives online. I'd need to go through the literature to check the manufacturer's usage. But I took a quick look at an 1980s manufacturing booklet from Victorinox and they used the word "handles". I usually use the word "covers" or "handles".

As a follow up, in this factory tour video they do refer to the handles as "scales" (this contrasts with their use of "handles" in the 1980 booklet)

Slight diversion but related maybe... We usually call the bolsters on both ends of a jack knife 'bolsters,' but at least some of the cutlers back in the day only used 'bolster' to describe the end from whence the blades originated. The other end could either be 'bare head,' or if encased in metal, that er... "bolster" would be called a 'cap,' instead. To be called a 'bolster,' it was necessary to have blades originating from that end of the knife, also. Sorry for the ramble; hope it was not completely irrelevant.

Interesting !