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Jarrett Fleming's, the Conciliator

Discussion in 'Jarrett Fleming Knives' started by swaybacksteve, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    First off I would like to Thank Jarrett for sending me the prototype for the Conciliator to play around with and see if we needed to make some changes that would fit my hand and uses better. I am not a designer of knives by any gauge of experience, but glad that Jarrett gave me this opportunity. I don't post much and when I do it is usually in the traditional knives subform. But like a few of us...the Georgia Knifemaker's have caught my eye. One in particular is Jarrett Fleming.


    I have been fortunate in having Jarrett let me toss a few ideas on knives by him. He had a design contest a bit back and I posted a few ideas. Luckily he liked one enough to follow through, making it for me. That was the Nocturnal, which is my idea of about a 8 inch fighter style clip blade with a long enough handle for my hands. A simple and clean design.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    This thread though is about the latest one that Jarrett and I have been working together on. It's really based on his Itty Bitty. Love the itty bitty, fits my hand well and nice short nesmuk style blade. But I like my EDC knives closer to 7 inches in OAL and I wanted a pointier tip but still with some belly.

    Here is my JF edc lineup:from the top weebil , itty bitty, Conciliator, pedc , and the nocturnal.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr



    I had in mind that I like a nice straight edge like on a wharncliffe blade, but make that edge more usable with a curve up but not too much. Keep the tip below midline and keep it a spear. This design borrows from a Bose Zulu spear. Jim Dunlap is sending me a LC with a Zulu ( he told me it was his first), but I don't have it yet so I will post a picture later. Here is a picture of a GEC Viper along with Dunlap Lanny's Clip.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr .

    First off I want a handle that would fit my palm, and with the basic shape of the itty bitty handle ( mine is version 1.0, as Jarrett is making only his v2.0 right now)

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    this is what I came up with and Jarrett made it pretty much as I drew it, but the prototype is at 7 inch OAL
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    The Handles
    lets do a photo comparison with the three finger Weebil and the close to four finger grip if the Itty Bitty. [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr[​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr[​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr[​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    to be continued...
     
  2. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    The Bose Lanny's Clip handle is my favorite of the traditional pocket knives. And why I also like the Viper and Case's swaybackjack/gent knives. And you can see that similarity on the itty bitty model and so carried through to the Conciliator.

    So a series of grip holds that may see some action...
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr


    one thing that I would like changed is the butt of the handle. It does suffer a bit of a PPF...pertinux's pinky factor. Sarah, if you see this hope you don't mind. PPF came up a lot in Pertinax's excellent review of multiple knives posted on the fiddlebackforge knife makes forum...yes excellent. And its a crowding up on the pinky on certain grips which would affect comfort in repetitive and hard use. It's an EDC so it won't be used really all that hard but could use a better flow like on the PEDC handle. A palm size of under 3 3/4 in. would find this handle comfortable.

    next gonna cut something.
    It may be a bit as the wife has some things for me to do like take all of her enamelware down from above the kitchen cabinets, so that she can clean them.
     
  3. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    ok, sorry for a short delay...had to drive back to the low country when I developed a fever and cough. Better now after a day of Tamiflu.

    The Conciliator
    cpm 154 SS
    OAL on prototype 7.0 inches
    3 in of sharp edge, 0.25 of guard.
    handle, from lower guard to end 3 3/4", same measure to the tip of the bottom of the handle that the pinky will rest on is a hair over 3 1/2"

    The material is some kind of synthetic with noticeable skulls. After the prototype gets a massage it will get some wood scales. Much more traditional look. Jarrett is saving some for me that I picked out months ago.

    The blade works well as an EDC fixed blade. Small, light, sharp and has a nice tip with reasonably belly. The balance point is right at the back pair of pins. I'd like a balance point just in front of the first pair. So now it is handle heavy. I think a tapered tang would work well to bring that balance point more forward and make slicing when cooking more comfortable and have good control.

    quick notch on a inch wide branch

    [​IMG]

    didn't bring my SAK farmer, no saw no problem. Cleared out this ladder I made years ago to get over the barbed wire fence

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And those scales...
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    now look carefully for another "skull" looking at you in the woods.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  4. mjbine

    mjbine Gold Member Gold Member

    169
    Jan 12, 2011
    Thanks for the insight!
     
  5. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
  6. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    Now why do I find the handle so comfortable? Well it sits in my mitt very well that is why. It might be hard to describe even with pictures ,
    so I am very fortunate to be able to have this prototype in hand. Thanks Jarrett once again.

    Here is a picture of my fist gripping hard...I drew a line with a pen to mark the spots that the finger tips fit into the "meat" of the palm, the thenar eminence ( thumb side) and the palmer eminence (where the pinky rests).
    A favorite knife to compare with is the slightly longer FF Bushcrafter Jr. The Conciliator when gripped firmly has its spine sitting in the pocket marked out by the pen marks.
    The bushcrafter in firm grip has the spine resting between the pen line and the palmar crease ( the life line). It is the difference of a very strong grip on a knife and a good one.


    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
     
  7. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    Any EDC fixed knife will find it's way to the kitchen or at least be involved in making a meal/snack at the camp, or even at a rest stop.

    The straight edge and slight up ramp makes slicing very easy. I though that a guardless design might work better for slicing food duties, but I surprising did not find the guard in the way. Probably because I often use a pinch grip in this situation and on such a short knife. Another reason on wanting more weight more forward in it's balance.


    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    and here's the pinch grip I use


    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    so how would I change the prototype for my personal improvement of use?
    next...
     
  8. Jarrett Fleming

    Jarrett Fleming Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jun 5, 2011
    Keep it coming Steve! Thank you for giving us your thoughts on the prototype.
    I'm excited to be working on this design with you and believe it will make an excellent addition to the lineup!
     
  9. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    Thanks Jarrett. another delay due to this flu thing hit me hard past couple days , even had to get someone to work a shift for me.


    Conciliator by definition is "to mediate", or someone that mediates. As a knife the Conciliator would figure out a way to get the cutting done. Its going to be a good EDC. All of the JF knives come in sharp and only needed some stropping to get back in working order. It is an EDC so not batoning, but can do a load of cardboard. peel off bark for a hiking pole. do a try stick. open a letter. open a box from that big retailer and cut a steak. It can dejoint a whole chicken, and fillet a trout. I tried it against my Survive! 2.7 (stainless steel) and the survive! knife was sharper, but I forgot I just did all these other things and well a stropping was all I needed to get the Conciliator close.

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    How would I make it better for my use and hands? It is an EDC and I like to front pocket carry in a sheath with a SAK cadet. Might get a fancier sheath some day, but it should fit up front, so an EDC around 7 inches works. The FF bushcrafter JR barely makes it but a bit uncomfortable sitting, the PEDC is just too long. They will fine in a sheath and in a backpack, maybe belt carry, but don't really like that. It is colorado so a 3.5 inch blade can easily be carried and I do...except visiting the cities. Around 3 1/4 to 1/2 is very usable for me. and a handle the around 4 in will be tops.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    so let me open a gate to some of my ideas for Jarrett.

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    So with the handles. here is a drawing of the prototype, marked out in red. First off I think it would be more comfortable in hand by rounding out the bottom of the handle near the pinky. This would give the advantage of making this knife also more accessible to larger hands than mine. The other change is adding a pinch grip. During Jarrett contest of new designs , he made two knives of the winner, one of them had a pinched grip like this and I think it would work well for kitchen use. How deep and long will be up to Jarrett.
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1441834-Design-contest-knife-WIP-**Complete

    As I recall FF's Andy got that one when Jarrett went to visit.

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr



    Now for the blade itself. Extending the blade to over 3 inche...here 3 1/8" to 3 1/4"...would get the knife to a sweet 7.25 OAL. Slicing duties like a nice straight edge and so making the straight edge longer is a definite plus. I initially thought of request it guardless, buy found the guard really out of the way with a pinch grip, and a guard is useful on a small knife (cutting up a chicken)
    I like the tip and belly of the prototype. But just extending the tip 1/4 in seemed to me to mess with the belly some, either on the spine or sharp edge. so by dropping the tip even more below midline and adding 1/8" and gently bring up the edge, the shape of the prototype tip/belly is preserved. overall this will make a terrific slicer, kitchen, camp, hiking...and the tip /belly maintaining a stabiness to it.

    [​IMG] by swaybacksteve, on Flickr


    And remember about a Lanny's Clip slipjoint with a Zulu Spear. Jim Dunlap made this for me with coffeebag micarta, has red liners
    And the inspiration for the Conciliator.

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    I have a few other suggestions like a tapered tang, but will discuss straight with Jarrett. Any comments are welcome. Seems this post has been viewed but rarely a comment , no big deal.

    That is it for now until Jarrett agrees on the final changes and I am not actually up for the making of this till Mid March or so. I'll post those pictures for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  10. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    double posted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  11. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    Well it has been some time and I have the final Conciliator knife that Jarrett made for me...and the forum is back and running. It fits my hand perfectly!!! and will be my go to knife. I have had the chance to carry it on a number of spring hikes, front pocket and has a nice feel. I know very subjective. SS cpm154 is very sharp and cleans so easy and no worries of any staining or having to clean up back to shine. The tip being low makes this like a modified sheepfoot. Very slicey, especially with the pinch holds on the handles. The wedge is a nice touch and before you ask, is unsharpened.

    Remember this picture? notice how now the end of the handle fits my hand very well...
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    The tip laid down lower as requested
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    The itty bitty was the inspiration and the Benchmade seems like one too!
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    and the grips work very well in all the hold I like to use.
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr

    And utilizing the pinch grip, despite the guard, with the fingers out of the way and the low tip , it makes it easy to slightly lift up the blade to finish off a slice. works great!

    [​IMG]Untitled by swaybacksteve, on Flickr
     
  12. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
  13. Jarrett Fleming

    Jarrett Fleming Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jun 5, 2011
    Thanks for taking the time to write all this up Steve. I enjoyed working on this project with you.
     
  14. swaybacksteve

    swaybacksteve Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2015
    Thank you Jarrett, Getting a truly custom knife like this was a great experience. The thread is getting lots of looks, if not any comments.
    The Conciliator really is a great EDC knife in carry and use.

    I am glad your books are still open cause a Weebil in Koa would be a great addition for the collection. Let me know when you are ready to start!
     

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