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Kamisori #1 WIP and now with #2

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by fast14riot, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Well with a big heat wave headed my way, projected 6 days of 100+, I sure didn't feel like sitting in the shop hand sanding on the Dixie straight razor I'm restoring. So instead I decide to sit in the shop at the grinder. I just recently learned about Japanese straights, Kamisori razors, and not having the money to even pay attention right now I figured I would try my hand at making one! They can't be all that difficult, right?! So I grab my last 10" bar of 1084 steel, look up what some typical dimensions for these things are and scribble out two razors on this one bar. Since I didn't feel like hand sanding I guess using a hand hack saw to cut these out was a better idea, NOT! My bandsaw is down right now so I guess that's the way its gonna be.

    I did some quick math to determine the height of my grind for this thickness of steel, 0.188" and 15* edge equals a 0.7" high grind. Mark the blade portion and start rough profiling. Then go to the 2" wheel and a #40 blue Zirc belt and start making sparks! That's where I'm at now, I haven't done the Ura side yet, but while my hands regain feeling I am getting ready to. I hope I have my terminology correct, the Omate is the short ground side and th Ura is the large shallow hollow grind, right?

    Well, here are the pics. Please do comment good, bad or otherwise. No one ever learned from continual 'atta boys'!


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    All comments welcomed.


    -Xander
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  2. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Don't worry there is still plenty of time for me to screw this thing up! I puckered at both ends as I started to grind the Ura in and ended up going up over the spine a bit and thinned it out more than I would have liked. I think I salvaged it for now, but like I said, I got two blanks from my last bar of steel. The other one waiting patiently for its turn.

    Pics!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Again, all comments and critiques are encouraged! I'm a big boy, I can take it.


    -Xander
     
  3. Salem Straub

    Salem Straub KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 20, 2008
    Your rough hollow in the first pic looks good. I'm not familiar with these type of razors, so this should be educational. I shave with a straight, maybe one day I'll follow this wip and make myself a Japanese style razor to try. Keep it up!
     
  4. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Thanx Salem! I must confess, this is my first ever hollow grind and I am doing this on a stock HF 1x30 grinder! Just some things a disc grinder can't do. I have yet to shave with a straight, but I do use DE razors and traditional wet shave. I just restored an old beat up W.R. Case straight, got it shave ready and am now polishing up the ol' brass balls before I can muster up the nerves to try it!

    I did fix the Ura and the spine which now looks MUCH better now. It also thinned out and brought the edge down close to my target pre HT thickness of .030". I also did a little massaging to the profile for some syle, the straight spine was just too harsh and I tapered the tang a little.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    -Xander
     
  5. cbr900son

    cbr900son

    Mar 3, 2011
    Looks good
     
  6. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Well I have finally gotten back around to this little project. Getting ready for heat treat now.


    This side will be ground post heat treat so I didn't do too much work on it, just a quick 320# finish

    [​IMG]


    Still sanding this side to 400#, getting close...

    [​IMG]

    Got the edge/spine geometry pretty much finalized for honing...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I added just a small groove to the end of the handle for some detail, I may do some more file work...

    [​IMG]


    So its pretty close to heat treat, I will mark it cold before heat treat as well. Again, comments and critiques are encouraged.


    -Xander
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  7. Daniel Fairly Knives

    Daniel Fairly Knives Full Time Knifemaker Moderator

    Jan 9, 2011
    Looking good! Very nice work on a tough project! :cool:
     
  8. aarongb

    aarongb

    295
    Nov 2, 2007
    Wait, you're using an HF 1x30 for the hollow? The top wheel? Any damage so far?
     
  9. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Yep, the top wheel. Didn't use a whole bunch of pressure and used good quality belts. Besides if I really bear down on this thing it stalls out anyways. I do a bunch of my grinding on my 9" disc grind, but doing a hollow on a disc isn't easy, nor did I feel like making faceplate mounted spindles. I bought the two year warranty for the grinder anyways.

    I hope this project shows some new makers that you can do good work (at least I hope I do good work!) On basic equipment. Its like a bicycle from Walmart VS. Lance Armstrongs bike. They both do the same thing, just one will last longer, work smoother, and be easier to use.


    -Xander
     
  10. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    More PICS!

    Here are the measurments as it sits now...

    6" (152mm) overall
    2.125" (53mm) edge
    6/8 grind 15/16 avg. blade height

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Compared to a Union cutlery Spike razor for size reference.

    [​IMG]


    It balances right on the thumb in a comfortable grip, right about in the middle. It does not feel weighted on either end and handles rather neutral.

    [​IMG]



    -Xander
     
  11. flatblackcapo

    flatblackcapo Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 25, 2012
    lookin, good Xander. I am going to get off the damn computer and make some knives now!
     
  12. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Well since my original kamisori is close to heat treat, I figured I would grind out another one because I like doing heat treat in batches. This one went MUCH quicker using all the mistakes I learned from on the first one I ground this out.

    This is only rough ground to 50# right now, still some blending to do is areas, but its pretty darn close.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Comments and critiques are encouraged.


    -Xander
     
  13. Carl_First_Timer

    Carl_First_Timer

    Dec 6, 2010
    What kind of scale material is that there next to the antler? :p
     
  14. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Haha, no comment! :eek:


    -X
     
  15. Daniel Fairly Knives

    Daniel Fairly Knives Full Time Knifemaker Moderator

    Jan 9, 2011
    Nice!!! The grinds look great!
     
  16. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Well today I had set aside to heat treat this kamisori. I tweaked the grind and geometry a little bit and kept playin with it, but said enough is enough. If I didn't do it today I was just going to keep putting it off.

    PICS!

    Here is the final shape before heat treat, rough ground to 150#.

    [​IMG]

    My little two brick forge.

    [​IMG]

    After letting the forge warm up I put the razor in and watch the edge to keep from overheating it. The beauty of 1084 is that it is the eutectoid steel, get it non magnetic plus a litte bit more and quench. No soak times, no temperature ramps.

    I also did a couple runs to forging temps so I could bend the handle up a litte bit. I ground a small hump back into it which after bending flows real nice.

    [​IMG]

    You can see the humpback from the first pic is now nicely blended in to the curve of the handle, this is fresh from quench in 135* canola oil.

    [​IMG]

    I got a slight bit of warp in the blade, fortunately it wasn't just the edge so that is easy to take care of.

    [​IMG]

    To get rid of the warp I clamp it to something flat and temper it. It will come out during the temper.

    [​IMG]


    That's all for now, its finishing up the second temper cycle now, then I have to go pick up my boy from day care. So the rest of my shop time for the day is shot.

    I will update as I get more done!


    -Xander
     
  17. fast14riot

    fast14riot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Ok, so I convinced the wife to let me sneak out to the shop for a bit more this afternoon. I got some post HT grinding done, still have some more to go.

    Preliminary grind...

    [​IMG]

    Edge thickness after preliminary grinding...

    [​IMG]

    I put it to a stone to check my grinding and how straight it is. Looks like the center was a bit high on the spine and my edge is twisted just a bit.

    [​IMG]

    The other side is looking pretty good right now, it will need a touch of grinding to even it out but looks good for now.

    [​IMG]


    Hopefully I can get back to grinding tonight after the boy goes to bed. With the edge getting this thin I litterally can only grind for 2 seconds before I have to dunk it in ice water. Maybe if I utilize my shop time efficiently I can shave with it tomorrow morning!


    -Xander
     
  18. Daniel Fairly Knives

    Daniel Fairly Knives Full Time Knifemaker Moderator

    Jan 9, 2011
    Looking good! :cool:

    That grind looks very tough to pull off, nice work.
     
  19. mgysgthath

    mgysgthath

    Dec 15, 2009
    That's looking good, especially for your first hollow grind! I haven't tried it yet, I have a 10" wheel sitting in my dresser drawer but I'm still trying to get to a point where i can flat grind with some reliability. But your post has made me think about things.. rather than doing one knife at a time I think I'll start doing batches of 3 or 5.. then the little things you learn from the first mistakes aren't forgotten by the time you get around to do it again.. you're immediately applying it to your next, and the next..

    Anyway, can't wait to see how this turns out!
     
  20. Daniel Fairly Knives

    Daniel Fairly Knives Full Time Knifemaker Moderator

    Jan 9, 2011
    ...and then go back to the first few until you are happy with them all! repetition is probably the most useful learning tool in knifemaking, practice makes perfect! :D
     

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