Knife "batoning" for camp/survival fire making

I baton small pieces of wood to make kindling. I find it easier then trying to stand small pieces of wood up on a log to split. I use a knife that can take the abuse and if it broke when batoning I would be shocked, but it would be replaced for free. Busse is a great hard use knife with a great warranty. I've chopped and batoned with it alot and it will still shave hair off your arm. I also hear great things about Becker knives. I have a bk9 also but have yet to use it.....one day.
 

Batoning is not the issue; beating your knife recklessly like an ape and using batoning as an excuse is the problem. The same goes with massive chopping knives when users pound them relentlessly against a tree. These are precision tools and like all good tools they perform best when they are well maintained and treated with respect. A extra mass of steel in a sturdy knife is a poor substitute for brain matter. Take the time to do it right and the knife will deliver a lifetime of performance.

n2s
 
It's all a matter of technique.
If you have good technique you'll have no problems, if you don't bad things are likely to happen to your knife.
 
I consider batonning in the same category as filtering urine through a pant leg filled with pebbles and sand: it's a skill I should know and which could potentially save my life, but which I hopefully will never have to use, except in very limited circumstances like taking small limbs off a trunk or quickly splitting a stick.

Don't try the filtering. It won't work. ^___^

Whatever "tons" and "scores" might be, there are videos of Ray Mears batonning hardwood with a MORA. He does not think it's abuse, and apparently MORA does not either. Kochanski, ditto.

Having said that, anything can be broken by someone. I baton when I have to (seldom) and carefully with no casualties thus far. Would I prefer a BK2? Sure.
 
Batoning is not the issue; beating your knife recklessly like an ape and using batoning as an excuse is the problem. The same goes with massive chopping knives when users pound them relentlessly against a tree. These are precision tools and like all good tools they perform best when they are well maintained and treated with respect. A extra mass of steel in a sturdy knife is a poor substitute for brain matter. Take the time to do it right and the knife will deliver a lifetime of performance.

n2s

+10
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Don't try the filtering. It won't work. ^___^

Whatever "tons" and "scores" might be, there are videos of Ray Mears batonning hardwood with a MORA. He does not think it's abuse, and apparently MORA does not either. Kochanski, ditto.

Having said that, anything can be broken by someone. I baton when I have to (seldom) and carefully with no casualties thus far. Would I prefer a BK2? Sure.

Ray is a student of mors...
 
We have a small group of families that like to meet on weekends to let our 2-6 year old kids play. That often includes a campfire. I split logs at home with an axe, but at the campfires I break down that split firewood as needed by batoning. I use a bk2, a bk9, a Condor golok, and/or a Condor Village Parang. I bought them specifically for splitting wood. Small children are fast and unpredictable, and I'd much rather be swinging a cedar baton than a 3 lb chunk of sharpened steel. Is that knife abuse? Maybe to some folks it is, but as far as I'm concerned I'm using a tool to do the job I purchased it to do, and a job it's perfectly capable of doing.
 
I don't baton with my knives, for a couple of reasons:

1) I feel is outright needlessly abusive to baton with a knife, especially when the knife wasn't purpose-built for doing it. The scores of "I broke my knife while batoning, what went wrong???" BF Threads / Youtube Videos are a testament to the fact that you're much more likely to break your knife if you choose to baton with it. I do a lot of borderline-abusive things with my knives on occasion, but batoning is kind of where I draw the line. If you want to baton with your knives, go for it, but you have no-one but yourself to blame if they snap / chip / disintegrate.

2) I've been going camping since I was very small, and I've never NEEDED to baton with my knives. I would submit that very very few people have ever NEEDED to baton their knives through logs to split firewood. In nearly any situation where you might want to baton your knife through a log, you could, instead, just do what this guy does:

[youtube]N-WuP-xYlnc[/youtube]

When I was small, that's basically the way I learned to split wood without the use of a hatchet/axe/splitting maul - make a notch, apply a wedge, hammer the wedge through the log to split it. The risk of breaking your knife, hurting yourself, etc. is almost nil, and you don't need a great big sharpened prybar to do it. For most of my life, I only brought a single blade pocket knife for camping purposes alongside a hatchet and small saw, and I could make do without the saw OR the hatchet when it comes to firemaking if I really needed to, using a wedge and a little bit of imagination.

Now, if you do WANT to baton with your knives, that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. Lots of folks have fun with it, and there are plenty of knives on the market now that are specifically built to handle that kind of use (like the venerable Bk2, which is apparently harder to kill than the Terminator robot :eek:). I would suggest that if you want to baton things, you should only do it with knives that are made to withstand that particular task. It's not a fad I subscribe to, though, and it's really not something you NEED to do with your knives at all - just a matter of preference.

I sense an inherent wisdom in this reply. Pounding on a knife seems pointless after watching that video.
 
IMO, it's good to know how to baton properly in case of emergencies. In a non emergency situation I couldn't see myself batoning anything bigger than toothpick size as I would have proper equipment and tools to get that and other jobs done. Why use a knife on wood when axes, which are built for it, do such a better job easier. An emergency where none was available sure, but in a non emergency I see it as using the wrong tool for the job.

Joe
 
Someone please find a video of someone breaking a Becker while batoning......
 
It's all a matter of technique.
If you have good technique you'll have no problems, if you don't bad things are likely to happen to your knife.

Exactly!:thumbup:

Many times I find batoning way safer than using the axe!
I avoid using the handle as a lever and put the force on the spine only.

If possible I primarily use the axe and a premade wooden wedge.
The wedge is then batoned through the wood.

Logs are best splitted with splittingaxes and splitting wedges.
I don't carry such tools out in a forrest and avoid working with logs.
I have split smaller logs around 4" with 1/4" thick spines and 8" bladelenght.

Using the proper technique, batoning is possible with a thin Mora knife and even a folder like as mentioned a SAK.
I have tried with an Opinel #9 and it worked, but the edge was too thin and it rolled when passing a knot.
After resharpening to a thicker edgeangle the Opinel was intact again and the edge is stronger than before the test.

The pics show a Fällkniven NL4 after opening a place for the wooden wedge to be batoned through the wood.
The second is a Mora drawknife with the second handle cut off.
Here the Mora was batoned through a massive piece of Maple firewood.
Observe the knot.

NL4 splitting firewood.jpgMora-Convex-Training.jpg

Regards
Mikael
 
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Exactly!:thumbup:

The pics show a Fällkniven NL4 after opening a place for the wooden wedge to be batoned through the wood.
The second is a Mora drawknife with the second handle cut off.
Here the Mora was batoned through a massive piece of Maple firewood.
Observe the knot.

View attachment 328147View attachment 328148

Regards
Mikael

You have a nice patina on that NL4's handle. Did you treat it, or is that natural?...I've heard they patina over time. I've been saving for a NL3....almost there.
 
You have a nice patina on that NL4's handle. Did you treat it, or is that natural?...I've heard they patina over time. I've been saving for a NL3....almost there.

The colour comes with use.
Fällkniven says "leave it as it is or maybe treat it with some kind of wax".
I have a buffer in the workshop loaded with knifemakers white wax, but noncoloured shoepolish also works.
Beeswax will darken the leather real quick, but the shoepolish will be enough.

When new out of the box, leatherhandles are often felt slippery in hand.
Handsweat solves this..

Regards
Mikael
 
Batoning is not the issue; beating your knife recklessly like an ape and using batoning as an excuse is the problem. The same goes with massive chopping knives when users pound them relentlessly against a tree. These are precision tools and like all good tools they perform best when they are well maintained and treated with respect. A extra mass of steel in a sturdy knife is a poor substitute for brain matter. Take the time to do it right and the knife will deliver a lifetime of performance.

n2s

Yup--this.
 
I consider batonning in the same category as filtering urine through a pant leg filled with pebbles and sand:
It comes out sterile to begin with. The dirt may not help that very much. Just plug your nostrils.
Bring along beer in cans...
 
At risk of going off topic,
Drinking urine.
Yes, it comes out sterile, but that's not be problem.
The issue is the salts in the urine.
No amount of filtering solves that problem..
If you're dehydrated the salts are more concentrated. Drink the urine and you are just re-ingesting the salts your body has excreted, concentrating them and damaging your kidneys. Plus your body will strip water from your system in an attempt to remove them from your body, making you more dehydrated.
Anyway, back on topic.
While batoning is not the bushcraft panacea, it is a useful skill to have, and can be very effective if done well.
 
I usually baton with a midsize fixed, like a RMD or a Survive 5.1. Honestly, it's not something I need to do, I always have a hatchet nearby. I do it simply because I can, and it's fun :) The two aforementioned knives have processed a lot of wood and are still very sharp. Not minty fresh, fileting a business card sharp, but enough to do everything I ask it to.
 
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