Leather dyes

[Mocivnik]

I'm new to this forum and not-so-new to the leather stitching, but right now, I came to the part, where my experience and knowledge doesn't help anymore.
I had a supplier, who delivered me finished leather, ready for use, which means, I never really had to deal with treating leather anyhow, I just cut and sew it into finished product.
But now I lost that supplier, and moved on. I started to buy leather from ebay, named "5-5.5 oz. Natural Veg Tan Cowhide".
I don't have a single clue how by any mean, how to treat that kind of leather from beggining to the finished product.
How to soften it, to shape it? How to treat it? What dye should I use? What finish after dye should I use? What should I use for edges? How, what, where...ahh, too many question. Any guide anywhere, I could find?

Many thanks to any reply.

 

[sheathmaker]

Not nearly enough information to help you. What are you making? What leather had you been using in the past? What items are you currently trying to produce? Some photos of past work might be helpful. 5 oz. Veg. tan cowhide is generally not useable for anything requiring "soft" leather. Help us help you by providing more and complete information.

Paul

 

[Mocivnik]

Oh, I'm horribly sorry for that.
I'd really like to make knife sheats, different variations, but mainly that kind of:

The leather I've been using in past is this:
(I'm horribly sorry, because I don't know how it's called, but as I've said, I'm quite new to leatherworks)

Overall, I'd really like to make leather knife sheets(as shown on 1st and 2nd picture) and when I'll be good enough (which I think, that it will take a while) also a gun holsters. But as I've said, that's a long way until I get there.

The leather I currently have and really wish to work with, which I got from ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-5-oz-Veg-...320546?hash=item23790670a2:g:9H0AAOSwDuJWzCQv

I hope I answered all your questions so far, if there's still not enough of informations, please do, ask me.

 

[sheathmaker]

Mocivnik, the light colored leather you have shown is chrome tanned, and is good for upholstery, Chaps, Chinks (cowboy gear), and possibly some garments. It is certainly NBOT ideal for sheath making. The veg. tan is best for that.

If you want to color your leather then based on what you bought it will have to be dyed. I suggest you look up Feibings Dyes, or Angelus dyes. Google is your friend.

Also based on your answers, I get the idea you are pretty new at this, so I would recommend you invest in a couple of "How to" books by Al Stohlman available through Tandy/Leather Factory. There are also a lot of sheath making and leather crafting videos on You Tube that you should search out and watch. Also at the bottom of my posts is information on how to to obtain my DVD's which are now available as Digital downloads. You apparently could benefit from some study time before you jump in over your head.

Edit to add: My DVD,s are all in English so if English is not your first language you need to keep that in mind.

Good Luck

Paul

 

[Mocivnik]

Mocivnik, the light colored leather you have shown is chrome tanned, and is good for upholstery, Chaps, Chinks (cowboy gear), and possibly some garments. It is certainly NBOT ideal for sheath making. The veg. tan is best for that.

If you want to color your leather then based on what you bought it will have to be dyed. I suggest you look up Feibings Dyes, or Angelus dyes. Google is your friend.

Also based on your answers, I get the idea you are pretty new at this, so I would recommend you invest in a couple of "How to" books by Al Stohlman available through Tandy/Leather Factory. There are also a lot of sheath making and leather crafting videos on You Tube that you should search out and watch. Also at the bottom of my posts is information on how to to obtain my DVD's which are now available as Digital downloads. You apparently could benefit from some study time before you jump in over your head.

Edit to add: My DVD,s are all in English so if English is not your first language you need to keep that in mind.
Good Luck
Paul

Thank you very much for Your reply!

I'm sorry for asking tons of dumb questions, but what exactly does mean veg. tan? It was tanned through vegetable oil or something?

What sorts of leather does exist then actually? I mean, I know I can google it (please forgive me for asking those questions here), but on internet, there are tons of useless informations, so I'm rather asking an expert (as You are) about that: like most common ones.

What I was more of asking about coloring the leather is this: How to treat it from beggining to the finished product:
-Do I have to rubb anything into leather before I start working with it?
-How to soften it (in case I need to to that)? I've seen doing that with hot water, is that it?
-When to dye it? Before cutting and everything, after softening (if neccessary), on the end?
-What kind of dye to use? Oil, alcohol, acryl based? Which is prefered in which occasions?
-What to use to finish edges? I've seen something such as wax, which you heat up with lighter then rubb it against the edges.
-What to use for gloss finish (or not exactly gloss, but to polish on the end. I mean, the leather can't be that beautiful as on 1st picture just by dying it?!)?

ps: Thanks for all the informations!

 

[sheathmaker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.ph...ltext=1&searchToken=92sh02yux2pbaw0wthiw3ys3c

This should get you started understanding the various leather tanning processes. It also has a translator.

Once again, not knowing the specific item you are trying to make the answers to your questions are nearly impossible. You are asking for a general education in leather and leather prep which is not practical on a forum setting. We would both be typing for hours.

Paul

 

[Mocivnik]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.ph...ltext=1&searchToken=92sh02yux2pbaw0wthiw3ys3c

This should get you started understanding the various leather tanning processes. It also has a translator.

Once again, not knowing the specific item you are trying to make the answers to your questions are nearly impossible. You are asking for a general education in leather and leather prep which is not practical on a forum setting. We would both be typing for hours.

Paul

Oh, I'm really sorry for not replying to that part, I missed it out.

I'm highly interested in such knife sheets, such as this:

I hope pictures will do it now.


I think it could be done with 5 oz. veg tan leather, which I have now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-5-oz-Veg-...320546?hash=item23790670a2:g:9H0AAOSwDuJWzCQv

I've also read a few sites and I got an advice of how to treat leather for this kinds of sheets:

1. Clean your leather with Fiebing's Dye Prep #5 or Fiebing's Deglazer
2. Dye leather surfaces with Fiebing's Leather Dye
3. Dye leather edges with Fiebing's Edge Kote
4. Apply Fiebing's Resolene over surfaces and edges after the product is finished.

Could that be the correct way to treat leather?

 

[Horsewright]

Welcome to the forum. I agree with Paul about the leather shown. It is a chrome tanned piece. I've used many cows worth of that very leather in different leggings for cowboys. From my supplier it is called Cheyenne and the color is Butter. Not for sheaths. The 5 oz veg tan that you have is the right kind of leather but a little light in weight. 7/8 oz veg tan seems to be about right as far as the weight goes for most sheath projects.

I really dislike dyeing leather and seldom will. I have just found through the years that most dyed projects simply don't last as long as un dyed. If ya want colored leather in your sheaths pre dyed veg tan (dyed at the tannery) is the way to go. That being said I have dyed lots of leather. I like Fiebings Pro Oil Dye. I use a foam brush to spread it on the leather evenly and let it sit in the sun for the color to even out. I have not used a deglazing product in over 30 years. Not needed. I really dislike Edge Kote. Nothing screams amateurish like edge kote. Lots of info on here about finishing edges. Learn how to rub an edge and ya have a project ya can be proud of. Resolene is a decent enough finish.

 

[Mocivnik]

Welcome to the forum. I agree with Paul about the leather shown. It is a chrome tanned piece. I've used many cows worth of that very leather in different leggings for cowboys. From my supplier it is called Cheyenne and the color is Butter. Not for sheaths. The 5 oz veg tan that you have is the right kind of leather but a little light in weight. 7/8 oz veg tan seems to be about right as far as the weight goes for most sheath projects.

I really dislike dyeing leather and seldom will. I have just found through the years that most dyed projects simply don't last as long as un dyed. If ya want colored leather in your sheaths pre dyed veg tan (dyed at the tannery) is the way to go. That being said I have dyed lots of leather. I like Fiebings Pro Oil Dye. I use a foam brush to spread it on the leather evenly and let it sit in the sun for the color to even out. I have not used a deglazing product in over 30 years. Not needed. I really dislike Edge Kote. Nothing screams amateurish like edge kote. Lots of info on here about finishing edges. Learn how to rub an edge and ya have a project ya can be proud of. Resolene is a decent enough finish.

Thank You for the welcome.
I understand that "butter-leather" isn't used for this kind of leather-sewing, but that's all I got in the past. I used to live in a small town, with no leather store in radius of 100km, so all I had was internet and I couldn't feel the leather in hands, until I received it.
(And to be honest, even now I don't know where to supply proper leather, 7-8 oz. veg tan, where to get it for reasonable prices)

Hmm...the thing You've said for dying leather, I'd agree on it, but as I've said earlier, I'm new to leather and I really don't know how to treat leather. 7/8 oz. pre-dyed veg tan it is, what I should be looking for? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION! I can't express, how much this information means to me. For further projects this is what I will be buying, as soon as I find a supplier for it (preferably in my region, otherwise just over internet).
But for first projects, I will try to use the 5 oz veg tan which I got, just to start stitching proper leather.

Are you using these brushes?

How long do You leave it on sun then? Are we talking of hours or days?

Hah So Deglazer and Edge Kote are off, and all I "need" is Fiebings Pro Oil Dye and Resolene.
Great, that's a pretty damn good start for me now, can't wait to order and start working

And about finishing edges, You can be sure, I'll check over the whole forum, to find onformations about it.

Thank You very much again.

 

[Horsewright]

Yep I buy those brushes in big bags although mine have plastic handles. I use them for glueing too as well as putting gum on the edges when rubbing. Usually overnight to even the color out but just a couple hours in the sun. The sun will darken your color up.

 

[Mocivnik]

Yep I buy those brushes in big bags although mine have plastic handles. I use them for glueing too as well as putting gum on the edges when rubbing. Usually overnight to even the color out but just a couple hours in the sun. The sun will darken your color up.

Oh okay, so I'm on right path. I've bought some of those brushes and also some of these:

just to make sure, which will effect better on leather.

Thank You also for the tips on drying the paint.
Now I have some further questions:

How to soften the leather, for these types of pouches?

Soften leather with hot water, clamp it in mould, leave it clamped overnight, take it out, dry it, dye it, leave on sun and then it's ready for sewing? Or I should be dying it when the product is finished?

PS, About the edges of sheets: is it the best way to do it with wooden wheel, such as this?
If so, should I use any kind of wax or oil while doing it?

 

[Mocivnik]

Horsewright, few final questions before I take my order (I got the supplier for Fiebings).

If I'd like dark brown color dye, is Acrylic Resolene in color of brown proper? Or should resolene be neutral? What's the actual difference, which one should I take?

How long can I have those bottles opened (of Pro Oil dye and Resolene)? A year is okay?

And one more thing, to condition leather afterwards, is this seal's fat okay to rubb it in? I'm currently having this Impermea Grasso, which I use for doc Marteen boots, and adds just really great glossy finish.

 

[Horsewright]

To make a formed pouch like that you are softening the leather with water. Its called wet molding. Dye after but I like to really make sure the leather is dry before I sew so depending on your climate it might be longer than overnight before it is ready to sew.. The duabers (the round wool brushes) tend to leave a streakier finish when dyeing surfaces. Handy for dyeing edges but not much else. Very easy to not get enough dye in areas and too much in other areas with the daubers. Yes I use a similar set up to rub edges. An edger is used first to take the corner off of the leather and then I rub it using the spinning wood deal. Mine is mounted on a lathe. I use either gum tracanagth or Wyo Quick Slik for edges. I do, like the pic you have, keep a piece of paraffin wax handy. On sheaths I will rub the edges twice once when wet and once when dry with the gum. When they are wet the wood needs an occasional dab of the paraffin. But paraffin itself, as can beeswax can be used alone as your edge rubbing. I only use finishes in neutral. Never a finish with color. Oh yeah I've got dye thats been opened for years and years. Unfamiliar with that conditioner. I'd bet it would add some water resistance too.

Rubbing the edges on a belt a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Mocivnik]

Thank You Horsewright for Your reply.

For wet molding; I've heard, that the warmer water you use for softening, the harder leather becomes, once it's dried (and also more brittle). Is this correct, what temperature is best for it? Cold, warm?

I have lathe too (many lathes, to be honest), will produce a simmiliar piece of wood for myself too (for now done only one with 2 grooves).

So..you apply gum on the edges, then polish it with wood and beeswax? Interesting, never thought of that.

Thanks for the info about dyes.

 

[Horsewright]

I haven't heard that on the water temp. I like to use warm to the touch water but not hot. Just about anything I wet mold is going in the oven to dry anyhow so not sure about the brittleness as everything is conditioned after. I use paraffin not beeswax. Thats the white block in the wooden tray in the pic ya posted.

 

[High Standard]

I suggest as Paul mentioned to get some books, DVD's, or watch some videos. Ian Atkinson is on Youtube. You can watch his videos. All steps to complete a leather project are explained on his videos.
Here's a few links.

 

[Mocivnik]

Okay, so first few things are behind me now;

I've started to make an axe sheat, which later came out useless, but..I've learned few things already.
First of all, I've learned, that 10mm strip isn't enough for a spacer, but at least minimum 12mm is needed.
I'm still "guessing" the size of the sheat for the axe, because I don't have the feeling yet, how much larger it should be. But that's another time story.
So, I've managed to cut out, to dye and use resolene, to stitch together the sheat (will post pictures few hours later today), but I'm unsatisfied with the edge. I tried to use a spinning wood(does it have an actually a name?), but I didn't get the satisfied look. It could be I used too big/low rpms or the wood wasn't proper. I turned it on lathe few weeks ago from Beech wood and warnished it with a little bit of an oil.

About using the beeswax and Gum Tragacanth on edges; if I got it right, it's how it should be applied:

Turn on the lathe with the spinning wood and use a bit of beeswax or paraffine on it, just to make it easier for use.
Also, apply the Gum Tragacanth on the edges of the leather sheet and then "round" it on spinning wood.

Is this a correct way to do it? I know it's something when it's written and totally different when it's done, but just roughly asking, if I got this right.

And for Gum Tragacanth, is Fiebing's Gum Tragacanth proper to do it?

Thanks for all past and incomming replies!

 

[Mocivnik]

Sorry for late reply, but only now managed to get to the camera.

So this is the sheat (which will go to junk later, as soon as I finish "trying" on it). I think I've dyed it OK and also applied resolene on it. I've used about 4-5 coats of dye and 1-2 coats of resolene. I've also noticed, that resolene is quite a pain in the ass, if you don't spread it quick, because it leaves marks on the paint.
The axe fits okay, but I had problems with the stitching, as you can see.
First problem is, I didn't left enough of the spacer between top and bottom layer. I'm leaving 12mm next time.
Second problem is, that I can't do a proper straight stitching. I used prong forks to make holes, but I'm quite unsatisfied with it. But I don't know whether it's problem in punching holes or me, not been able to stitch straight paralel to the edge. I will try next stitching with the spacer wheel, as this one:

The very next problem occured on the edges, as could be seen on this photo below:

I tried to burnish it with a tool, similiar to this, but didn't get nearly any effect and I really don't know why. Should I be using a paraffine on it and/or painting the edge with Fiebing's Pro Oil Leather Dye before burnishing? And taking off the edges with edge beveler? If so, what radius of the tool is recommended? 1mm? 2mm?