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New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

Discussion in 'Custom & Handmade Knives' started by John White, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. John White

    John White

    Jun 23, 2007
    The White House has published the basic outline of a new ban on US sale of Elephant Ivory.

    This ban will affect and essentially prohibit all sales of Elephant Ivory on knives, (with only two specific exemptions.)

    1) All sales of Elephant Ivory will be banned within the US, unless accompanied by a document showing the ivory was imported before 1990, or is a valid hunting trophy.The actual wording only mentions documentation, but news reports call for actual import certificates.

    2) Fish and Wildlife will be authorized to confiscate ivory items for sale unless seller can produce above permit document.

    3) Possession, not for sale, in home, etc, will not be affected, but possession at sale venue, show etc, will probably trigger confiscation.

    4) No mention in this document is made of Mammoth or Walrus.

    Here's the publication document link;

    Document


    Although Pre-Ban Elephant Ivory has not been a primary handle material on my knives, I have used Pre-Ban Ivory in the past. As of this date, 2/12/2014, I will no longer be using any Elephant Ivory in my knives, as such knives can not be sold across state lines, regardless of documentation.

    As a personal note to owners of my knives which have Pre-Ban Elephant Ivory, you may contact me to discuss choices, including replacement handle material.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  2. Dawkind

    Dawkind Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 3, 2000
    So the 'Comment Period' is over and it's a done deal?!? Another phony 'Executive Order' supported by Dick Holder and his equally phony 'Just Us' Department? :mad:
     
  3. Mike Quesenberry

    Mike Quesenberry

    Jun 2, 2009
    What if you have documentation, photo as well as written, that the the ivory is pre-1990.
     
  4. John White

    John White

    Jun 23, 2007
    Mike,

    So far, all that is known is published in the release document.

    Here's the relevant wording:

    Prohibit Commercial Import of African Elephant Ivory: All commercial imports of African elephant ivory, including antiques, will be prohibited.


    Prohibit Commercial Export of Elephant Ivory: All commercial exports will be prohibited, except for bona fide antiques, certain noncommercial items, and in exceptional circumstances permitted under the Endangered Species Act.

    Significantly Restrict Domestic Resale of Elephant Ivory: We will finalize a proposed rule that will reaffirm and clarify that sales across state lines are prohibited, except for bona fide antiques, and will prohibit sales within a state unless the seller can demonstrate an item was lawfully imported prior to 1990 for African elephants and 1975 for Asian elephants, or under an exemption document.

    Clarify the Definition of “Antique”: To qualify as an antique, an item must be more than 100 years old and meet other requirements under the Endangered Species Act. The onus will now fall on the importer, exporter, or seller to demonstrate that an item meets these criteria.

    Restore Endangered Species Act Protection for African Elephants: We will revoke a previous Fish and Wildlife Service special rule that had relaxed Endangered Species Act restrictions on African elephant ivory trade.

    Support Limited Sport-hunting of African Elephants: We will limit the number of African elephant sport-hunted trophies that an individual can import to two per hunter per year.


    I've italicized the documentation requirements in the publication. These look as if your examples would work, but news reports mention import documentation.


    Guidelines for the Fish and Wildlife enforcements will be published later.

    It looks as if the comments on the proposed rules succeeded in eliminating any ban on mammoth.

    Comments on the enforcement rules will be possible, but research will be needed as to how those can be made.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  5. bgspecialk

    bgspecialk

    146
    Feb 28, 2006
    From the Chicago Tribune- Tribune Washington Bureau

    "The administration will ban the resale of elephant ivory across state lines except antiques. Sales within a state will be prohibited unless the seller can demonstrate an item was lawfully imported before 1990 for African elephants and 1975 for Asian elephants. People can still own ivory and pass heirlooms to relatives.

    "Because we have an antiquities exemption everything becomes an antique" said a senior administration official who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak for his agency.

    "To qualify as an antique an item must be more than 100 years old and meet other requirements under the Endangered Species Act."

    "The biggest change will be that law enforcement will no longer have to prove that ivory it seized was illicitly acquired. Owners will now have the burden of proof to show that they legally acquired it."

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  6. betzner

    betzner Home ToMorro Platinum Member

    Jan 23, 2007
    I've had some exposure to this particular issue as it has developed and would suggest that it's a done deal, if not yet effective with respect to enforcement authority authorization.

    Sometime much sooner than later, anyone thinking of buying, selling or making an (elephant) ivory-handled knife without a government-issued document, good luck (IMHO). Seems to me that John sees the writing on the wall, considering his concluding remarks in the opener.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  7. Bladeandbarrel

    Bladeandbarrel

    Oct 5, 1998
    Unreal.
     
  8. ballknives

    ballknives

    205
    Jun 19, 2006
    "The biggest change will be that law enforcement will no longer have to prove that ivory it seized was illicitly acquired. Owners will now have the burden of proof to show that they legally acquired it." So this is the end of innocent until proven guilty for collectors.
     
  9. Mark Knapp

    Mark Knapp Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    Dec 20, 2009
    Let's don't smash any handles yet. We need to see what the USF&W service comes out with. It may be as simple as an affidavit from the original owner of the ivory. That's what satisfies them on pre-ban walrus.

    It used to be you were innocent until proven guilty, now, ivory is assumed to be illegal unless proven legal. It seems contrary to the basic foundation of US law to me but if that's what we need to do to continue the use of traditional materials, I guess that's what we will have to do.

    I would hate to see this result in the destruction of fine knives, guns and other personal property.
     
  10. HuntBomb

    HuntBomb

    Sep 18, 2009
    If you like your ivory. ....you can keep your ivory! :)
     
  11. TAH

    TAH Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 3, 2001
    When does this go into effect? Immediately?
     
  12. betzner

    betzner Home ToMorro Platinum Member

    Jan 23, 2007
    Betcha dealers will be having fits, too. Not too much to worry about with state enforcement authorities in the past, but now it's the feds - with their array of sophisticated search programs. I sure wouldn't want to be a dealer with a bunch of elephant ivory product around unless it's papered.
     
  13. Mike Quesenberry

    Mike Quesenberry

    Jun 2, 2009
    June.

    So if your wanting to buy an Ivory handled knife, do it in the next few months.
     
  14. John White

    John White

    Jun 23, 2007
    As a reminder, personal possession and passing on an heirloom to one's relatives will still be completely legal.

    Sale will be prohibited without documentation.

    No need for anyone to smash their handles.

    John
     
  15. i4Marc

    i4Marc KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 19, 2011
    Wake up people. Your rights are disappearing faster than the rain forests. The "fundamental transformation" which was promised is proceeding right on schedule. You are no longer innocent until PROVEN guilty. Now you are guilty until proven innocent. Welcome to the New World Order. Will the ivory grabbers even know enough to tell the difference between real ivory and synthetics?
     
  16. John White

    John White

    Jun 23, 2007
    Folks,

    I've started this thread as a service to makers and collectors, who will need to be informed about this matter.

    Please feel free to comment, provide further information, or simply register your unhappiness, but let's post political discussion in the political sub-forum so this thread doesn't get blocked, transferred, or locked.

    John
     
  17. Monocrom

    Monocrom

    Feb 1, 2006
    I'd like to agree with you. But I'm surprised it didn't happen during his first term in office.
     
  18. Doug C

    Doug C

    Mar 15, 2005
    Monocrom,

    As much as I agree with you, as John already mentioned please leave the political bs out of this thread.

    Doug
     
  19. gga357

    gga357 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 3, 2007
    I wonder if Don H III will adopt me.
     
  20. Lorien

    Lorien Moderator Moderator

    Dec 5, 2005
    I am uncomfortable with this forum becoming home to political debate as well.

    At this point, I'd suggest that this thread disappear, and that the core information that collectors and makers need to know be stickied in a locked thread.
     

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