Norton India stone review w/ pics

[David Martin]

Heavy Hand lapped his. But from the mfg. the fine India of today is 320g and the SIC fine is 280g. Many here have found these grits give a great edge capable of push cutting and more. Thanks Keith. DM

 

[THG]

Yeah the Norton Fine SIC is finer than people would think once they break in good (One or 2 blades).

Really?? I have a Norton SiC, and it doesn't seem that there would be any way to get the fine side to pop hairs. The best it does is a decent working edge.

Mine is the combo stone; is the fine side on this not the same as the standalone fine SiC or Al-Oxide?

 

[Ankerson]

Really?? I have a Norton SiC, and it doesn't seem that there would be any way to get the fine side to pop hairs. The best it does is a decent working edge.

Mine is the combo stone; is the fine side on this not the same as the standalone fine SiC or Al-Oxide?

You should be able to once the burr is gone.

Should be the same.

 

[sitflyer]

I may be off base but what effect does the "loading" of the stone combined with the slurry on top have.
In my experience a freshly cleaned surface exhibits more "bite".
And a loaded stone with blackened slurry less.
I liken this to using worn and loaded sandpaper in final finish work on both wood and metal.
It seems to have more of a polishing effect.
When I do my final strokes on my India fine I try to make sure the stone is loaded and has a heavy layer of black slurry.
would the slurry containing shed metal and carbides exhibit a polishing effect on the edge?

 

[HeavyHanded]

Really?? I have a Norton SiC, and it doesn't seem that there would be any way to get the fine side to pop hairs. The best it does is a decent working edge.

Mine is the combo stone; is the fine side on this not the same as the standalone fine SiC or Al-Oxide?

I bought the Home Depot Norton economy SIC 6" stone. Made in Brazil, the thing was so dished (appeared to be warped from the firing process?) that it had to be lapped. I lap all of my stones periodically anyway - SiC, AlumOx, Arkansas. As I said in my earlier write up, I lapped the India w/ 220 on the fine side and 120 on the coarse. This is how I lapped my Norton SiC stone as well. I thought about doing a back-to-back review of these stones using the same knives (since I actually put both knives to the SIC anyway) but decided I need to affix a scale to my pics before I post anymore of them.

Anyway, lapped identically the fine side of either stone will produce an edge that can easily shave arm hair, crosscut phonebook paper, and just clip facial stubble, with the more refined edge going to the India stone, and the SIC working faster and producing a smaller burr as well.
The coarse side of both stones will still produce an edge that can shave arm hair, but removing the burr becomes more of a challenge and getting that coarse edge to crosscut telephone paper becomes hit or miss, but is certainly possible.

I can't speak for any results prior to being stropped, as I don't normally test my edges without some stropping to remove the last bit of burr. There's a good chance that they would barely (from the fine side) shave arm hair or crosscut newspaper without some post-stone finishing.

 

[Jason B.]

I'm not saying it can't happen but getting hair popping from a 280 grit fine Sic stone is not that easy. However, If stropped using some of the fine Sic dust on a leather strop then hair popping is fairly easy.

Heavyhanded, the Norton economy stone from home depot is a aluminum oxide stone.

I also wouldn't say they produce a finer edge than the stated grit, my fine sic stone produces a 280 grit edge all day long but depending on the steel the scratch pattern can change.


P.S. heavy, you'll have a package arriving next week

 

[Ankerson]

I'm not saying it can't happen but getting hair popping from a 280 grit fine Sic stone is not that easy. However, If stropped using some of the fine Sic dust on a leather strop then hair popping is fairly easy.

Exactly, just remove the burr on it with the SIC loaded strop and it's there.

 

[David Martin]

Yes, the stropping makes the edge finer. I'm sure he's meaning coming off the lapped stone. Heavy, don't get my knives next to his. DM

 

[THG]

I bought the Home Depot Norton economy SIC 6" stone. Made in Brazil, the thing was so dished (appeared to be warped from the firing process?) that it had to be lapped. I lap all of my stones periodically anyway - SiC, AlumOx, Arkansas. As I said in my earlier write up, I lapped the India w/ 220 on the fine side and 120 on the coarse. This is how I lapped my Norton SiC stone as well. I thought about doing a back-to-back review of these stones using the same knives (since I actually put both knives to the SIC anyway) but decided I need to affix a scale to my pics before I post anymore of them.

I've had a couple of The Home Depot's stones. One, I gave to my friend, and the other I just got a few days ago. Both of mine were insanely dished; I'm still in the process of grinding mine against the sidewalk. I actually started a thread or two on this very topic a couple of months ago.

I finish lapping my stones with the sidewalk. I've lapped with my DMT XXC before, but the finish was way too fine, and the stone wasn't taking metal off of my knives anymore; the knives were just skating on the surface. So I refinished with the sidewalk, and I got much better results.

Anyway, lapped identically the fine side of either stone will produce an edge that can easily shave arm hair, crosscut phonebook paper, and just clip facial stubble, with the more refined edge going to the India stone, and the SIC working faster and producing a smaller burr as well.
The coarse side of both stones will still produce an edge that can shave arm hair, but removing the burr becomes more of a challenge and getting that coarse edge to crosscut telephone paper becomes hit or miss, but is certainly possible.

Shaving-sharp: no problem; I can do that with mine. If I read correctly, the OP said that he got his knife to "treetop hairs." And if I am familiar with that terminology, that means that you can take the knife, put it 1cm or so above the skin, and cut through hairs. I'm having a hard time believing that an Al-Ox stone can do that after seeing what my SiC can do, unless Al-Ox is designed to be much finer than say DMT EF.

Heavyhanded, the Norton economy stone from home depot is a aluminum oxide stone.

I'm pretty sure it's a SiC stone. I bought an 8x2 SiC stone from a site, and when it came to me, I was surprised to see that it looked and felt identical to the 6x2 that I had already bought from The Home Depot.

 

[Jason B.]

If you go to nortons site and look at the chart the economy stone is only in aluminum oxide. I also have one and its nothing like the Norton silicon carbide stone, it may look similar but should feel much different in use. Grind some S30V on each one and the difference should be easy to see, feel, and hear.

 

[hardheart]

My first economy stone was two shades of gray, the second was gray and brown. It certainly looks like they've switched between SiC and Alox at least once. They are economy stones, who knows how rigorous they are with the composition depending on the time in the fiscal year and what/where the stock level is at.

SiC and Alox can get finer because of the friability of the particles, but the particles start off quite large. The fine SiC stone has ~53 micron abrasive and the fine Alox is 43. This link even says that Alox is so friable that sanding wood will cause it to fragment, so your steel knife will definitely cause a reduction in particle size as you sharpen. http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00006_sb1.asp

Pressure is also very important. A very light stroke on 60 grit alox or single cut bastard files still lets me shave arm/leg hair with no discomfort.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Shaving-sharp: no problem; I can do that with mine. If I read correctly, the OP said that he got his knife to "treetop hairs." And if I am familiar with that terminology, that means that you can take the knife, put it 1cm or so above the skin, and cut through hairs. I'm having a hard time believing that an Al-Ox stone can do that after seeing what my SiC can do, unless Al-Ox is designed to be much finer than say DMT EF.

Yes, I said it would just tree-top leg hair, that is when passed along my calf about an 1/8" above the skin it will snag and clip hairs off, and strip a few small curls from some of the others. It won't produce a shower of hairs, but a bunch will collect on the blade or fall off with each pass. I might be using the term incorrectly, but pretty sure this is in line with the common interpretation.

There is absolutely a difference between the Crystalon and India stones - the India imparts a finer edge, but makes for a tougher time removing the burr, and grinds at about half the speed of SiC (in keeping with the differences in particle characteristics). Also entirely possible (I believe this to be the case but cannot verify it) that lapping an AlumOx stone with finer abrasives will result in a much more refined grinding surface regardless of the stated grit (up to a point). With a Silicone carbide stone I believe all you can do is make the surface more uniform, deglaze, and eliminate any loose grit that was hanging out on the surface. Not sure if this is a result of the differences in grinding particle, binders, firing process...

I'm pretty sure it's a SiC stone. I bought an 8x2 SiC stone from a site, and when it came to me, I was surprised to see that it looked and felt identical to the 6x2 that I had already bought from The Home Depot.

I cannot find the stone I bought from HD anywhere in Nortons catalog (Model # 87933, made in Brazil) but am almost certain that its silicone carbide based on how fast it grinds, the edge it creates, how it sounds/feels, and the overall look of it - I've been wrong before. The only difference between it and a genuine Crystalon stone (which I just got in the mail yesterday) is the fine side on the cheapie is a touch lighter grey - to be expected since it doesn't come oiled - and the Crystalon is made in Mexico.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I've had a couple of The Home Depot's stones. One, I gave to my friend, and the other I just got a few days ago. Both of mine were insanely dished; I'm still in the process of grinding mine against the sidewalk. I actually started a thread or two on this very topic a couple of months ago.

Best way to get it in shape IMHO is to go right back to Home Depot and demand a new stone....Just kidding.
Go back to Home Depot and in the tile area you'll find (next to the grout saws and tile cutters) an insanely tough stone that's used for cleaning up the edges of your cut tiles I think its made by QEP - and they call it a "rubbing stone" I think. Its also good for refreshing diamond saw blades. Used under running water these things can lap just about anything flat in relatively short order. If you have some 120 grit SIC lapping compound, the two in conjunction can save a lot of elbow grease and not have to use the coarse side at all. Do some finish lapping with the fine side of it and your dished 6" stone will be ready to go. Use lots of water.

 

[David Martin]

Also, save that slurry during lapping and later apply it to a strop. Agreed, the India gets finer and this condition will last a long time. DM

 

[me2]

I used a Norton Coarse/Fine India for 10 years before selling it. The fine India side would give an edge that would whittle coarse hair, beard and maybe leg. It would also tree top hair off the back of my head. It's an excellent stone for the average knife user. When I had it, the super steels (S60V, S30V, etc) were just gaining popularity, but I didn't have any, so I don't know how it works for them.

 

[tiguy7]

John Juranitch in his book on sharpening postulates that the slurry formed by the oil and swarf acts like a pile of sand, and when you drag your knife through it, it degrades the micro edge. My stones get glazed when used dry. I wash the stones with a conical auto parts brush and USP mineral oil to break up the glaze. Then I squeegee the stone off with rubber spatula. When poperly prepared, the stone is reasonably clean and relatively dry (no slurry). I'm talking SiC, Al2O3, and micro crystalline quartz. Don't use oil on diamonds or water stones. My basic set is two triangular prisms with 3- 1/2X 2 1/2X 11 1/2" stones suspended over an oil bath on each. The coarse set up consists of a coarse SiC (Carborundum), a medium SiC, and a fine India (Corundum-Al2O3). The second prism houses a Washita stone, a fine Arkansas stone, and a hard black Arkansas stone. I have used this setup on Stellite 6B (Talonite) and 6K, CPM S30-60-90&110V, ZDP-189, Boker Cera Titan, BG-42, CM154, CPM154, ATS 34, and Buckcote blades with chisel sharpened coatings as high 92 HRC.

 

[David Martin]

I have used Norton's JUM-3 a coarse/fine crystolon stone (the coarse side)to rebevel S30V and S60V without a hitch and it didn't cut slow or sluggish. About the same as cutting/sharpening 154CM or 440C. I can't say my X-Coarse DMT did the same job any faster. (But this was not the subject of the original post)(comparing or sharpening complex steels).Then taking it to the fine side and stropping left a nice sharp edge which would push cut newspaper in any direction, over come wrinkles and shave every arm hair it touched. Sharpening it on my lapped fine India stone took it much finer which would shave whiskers. If you've not lapped a Norton fine India stone, try it and see if you don't get a very sharp edge with most any steel. DM

 

[David Martin]

ti7, Thats the way I sharpen as well on dry stones and cleaning them when I notice build-up. Plus, I use the same first system and size stones you mention. That Tri-hone is not cheap and the second Tri-hone you speak of is much more costly. Wow, nice systems. :thumbup: DM

 

[THG]

If you go to nortons site and look at the chart the economy stone is only in aluminum oxide. I also have one and its nothing like the Norton silicon carbide stone, it may look similar but should feel much different in use. Grind some S30V on each one and the difference should be easy to see, feel, and hear.

Actually, they look the same, feel the same, and grind about the same. The only difference that I can detect is that the Crystalon stone had a better factory finish.

I cannot find the stone I bought from HD anywhere in Nortons catalog (Model # 87933, made in Brazil) but am almost certain that its silicone carbide based on how fast it grinds, the edge it creates, how it sounds/feels, and the overall look of it - I've been wrong before. The only difference between it and a genuine Crystalon stone (which I just got in the mail yesterday) is the fine side on the cheapie is a touch lighter grey - to be expected since it doesn't come oiled - and the Crystalon is made in Mexico.

My experience between the Crystalon and this Home Depot Economy stone has been exactly the same, except my Crystalon is overall slightly lighter in color.

 

[David Martin]

Hardheart, The link you give adds much insight to this discussion; how these two grits cut and why. Also, what maybe happening when the AO stone is lapped and how it then begins to work in sharpening. Even some toward the economy grits. Thank you for this this insightful article. DM