Seller and Buyers - Read This

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

There has been a lot of problems with selling and the rules on the BF lately. A review is in order. Please everyone read this thread.

Before anyone offers anything for sale on the BF, there are a few rules to be learned by all.

Besides the required level of membership, the rules are well defined as to how and where selling is allowed.

The rules are here:http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=746&a=98

Threads on Shop Talk about a product you are considering selling are OK, as long as the discussion is about the item and not about selling it. If the talk gets on to the subject of, "I'll take some of that/ How much are they going to sell for/...(etc.)", then you need to cease posting on that thread and refer everyone to a new thread in the for sale area.

You are not allowed to put everything you have on the for sale forum. Two posts on the first page, and four posts on page one and two combined...that is all.

If you don't like the item, don't buy it.....and don't comment on the sellers thread.
For Sale is not a discussion forum. If you like it...buy it. This area isn't for comments about the items...it is for buying and selling. Posts like " Nice Knife/Good Job/Wow!,etc." are not allowed...they are just bumping tools for friends, usually.Responses like "Thanks,etc," are also not allowed and are just bumping ploys. If you have a legit question, ask it...if not just enjoy the nice photos.

Let's keep the BF as good as it has always been.
Thanks - Stacy

 

[fixer]

For Sale is not a discussion forum. If you like it...buy it. This area isn't for comments about the items...it is for buying and selling. Posts like " Nice Knife/Good Job/Wow!,etc." are not allowed...they are just bumping tools for friends, usually.Responses like "Thanks,etc," are also not allowed and are just bumping ploys. If you have a legit question, ask it...if not just enjoy the nice photos.

it's been my understanding that comments were allowed on the makers' For Sale section, but not for stuff in the Exchange.

IMHO, it's not a bumping ploy there, but a way for the potential consumers to provide feedback to the makers.

since y'all don't allow non paying members to PM, and some makers don't accept email, *sometimes* that's the only way to provide that feedback.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

fixer,
Feedback is for The Good,Bad,Ugly forum. Posting, "Nice Knife" is not a feedback. Everyone who looks at the photo will have his own opinion as to whether it is a nice knife or not, and someone else's comment should not affect his/her decision to purchase the item.

The For sale forum is for buying and selling...and discussion between buyers ans sellers. Other comments are for another arena.

PM sent....Paypal Sent....Paypal recieved....Shipped....are all OK, as they are communication between buyer and seller.

I am not going to police the For Sale area constantly, but it has gotten out of hand lately....thus this thread.

 

[jonnymac44]

Stacy,
I know the exchange rules have recently changed, and I'm still trying to get accustomed to it all, but I also am kind of shocked that there are no longer comments allowed in the maker's exchange forum. I understand and agree that there should be no chat in the regular exchange area, but part of the experience in the maker's for sale area has always been the sharing of ideas and opinions on these custom pieces.

I suppose standard practice could be to start a thread in the shop talk section showing off the knife and looking for feedback and tell everybody in that thread to look for it in the exchange in a separate thread. Is that acceptable? It seems contradictory to the goal of keeping things uncluttered here.

Just thinking out loud here a bit, but the latest batch of new exchange rules seem pretty harsh. Are all buyers and sellers being punished for the abuses of a few here on the boards? It kind of feels that way.........

EDIT: Stacy, just saw your response that came in while I was typing. I can see where you're coming from. I hadn't realized that things had gotten that much off target in the for sale area. I also see your point about feedback not being related to the sale of a knife.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

If a seller wishes to sell a lot of knives and have an online shop, he can get a personal knifemakers forum
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464322

That way they can discuss their knives with fans, collectors, and perspective buyers. The For sale arena was intended to be a place for makers to sell a few knives and some excess supplies...not to be a full store presence.

I don't think these rules have ever changed.

 

[GregS]

I have noticed a lot of people leaving "feedback" on knives that are already sold. Which bumps that thread up and other unsold knives down. If I was a knifemaker trying to sell a knife, this would frustrate me...

Bumping a thread just to mark a knife as "sold" should be done away with as well.

 

[fixer]

fixer,
Feedback is for The Good,Bad,Ugly forum.

ok, perhaps i'm missing something, but under TGBU it says "This is your area to tell about your experiences (Good or Bad) with dealers, sellers, and individuals you've bought, sold, and traded with."

and as such, it's not the place to say "wow, that's a cool design, will you be making more in the future?" or "can i get one like this with XYZ scales?" or something like that.

if it's "buyers and sellers only, everyone else STFU", and the maker doesn't have a site or isn't taking emails... what's a prospective future buyer to do? (other than drop the coin on an upgraded membership)?

a simple solution would be to require all makers to accept email, or provide some way to contact them. not all do.

yes, i'm a cheap bastard, but i find the extra $5 for paying for a membership via paypal somewhat odd. it was said it's because you have to enter the info manually... but i don't know why that wouldn't apply to a MO mailed in too, because those definitely need to be entered manually.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Hi Stacy , I also have noticed a lot of things going on that you have mentioned . I also have seen some not honoring the 72 hour bump rule . This is not fair to others . But as a seller , I really like hearing from those looking if they like my work or have bought in the past and have good comments about the work . I would really miss that feedback . Even if my knives to not sell , it is nice to know they where well liked . I understand your position and have no thoughts on how to correct the problem except to ask all the sellers to understand and honor the rules .

 

[grangerknives]

I have noticed a lot of people leaving "feedback" on knives that are already sold. Which bumps that thread up and other unsold knives down. If I was a knifemaker trying to sell a knife, this would frustrate me...

Bumping a thread just to mark a knife as "sold" should be done away with as well.

It would be so nice if people would edit their original post to say Sold.
It is frustrating to be interested in a knife and scroll all the way down to find it has sold.

 

[bacustomknives]

aswell if there were no comments on a sellers product everyone would just , "TAKE A GLANCE" and move on, potential buyers like to see what others think aswell,exspecially if someone has bought from you and a potential buyer is curious about the maker, it very well tends to make a sell,Aswell yesterday i get a warning, my first ever, i seen something wrong with my pics after i posted it forsale in the thread 40 mins later which i was still at the top of the boards,i posted a quick reply instead of an edit,and get a warning put on my account by Esav, it dont exspire till next year? A simple mistake gets you that?? what the hells this coming to,i could see if i done it every 5 mins to stay on the top of the board but its the first time it ever happened, a simple mistake,$50.00 a year for a membership,to post pics and set back,and here nothing from know one?
i think thats B.S.,Im sorry stacy ,and i do have the upmost respect for you and for what you have to do,and enforce, just my two cents.
thanks bill

 

[bacustomknives]

It would be so nice if people would edit their original post to say Sold.
It is frustrating to be interested in a knife and scroll all the way down to find it has sold.

Sounds like a great idea to me aswell! would stop alot of clutter

 

[J. Rosa]

Okay, I'm confused.... So, we can only sell two knives per page and only a total of 4 knives a thread?? Is that correct? How often can I sell stuff? I read the rules but I must have missed something. I'm too much a small timer to afford my own forum here...

 

[Los Angeles]

I've spent several thousands of dollars in this for sale area. And guess what? Sometimes sales come to me when I post "this is a great knife" on a knife previously sold and the maker of that knife makes another one some time later and contacts me directly.

You see, the makers can use the postive remarks to gauge interest in the design and make more. No comments allowed means that the maker has less information to go by.

Chatting in THIS area is NOT cheating. It is all about knife makers and collectors encouraging good work and getting more. It's about community.

In the end, I find this "no chat" rule extremely heavy handed, a direct 180 from the spirit of the makers for sale section and the makers section in general, and an out-right shame.

 

[neuron]

It would be so nice if people would edit their original post to say Sold.
It is frustrating to be interested in a knife and scroll all the way down to find it has sold.

I agree with this. Even better would be editing the title of the thread as well as the post itself to include "SOLD".

 

[scs.knives]

the makers can use the postive remarks to gauge interest in the design and make more. No comments allowed means that the maker has less information to go by.

Chatting in THIS area is NOT cheating. It is all about knife makers and collectors encouraging good work and getting more. It's about community.

In the end, I find this "no chat" rule extremely heavy handed, a direct 180 from the spirit of the makers for sale section and the makers section in general, and an out-right shame.

my thoughts exactly.

 

[quick kill]

This might not mean anything coming from me... but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway. I think it's good for our maker's to hear words of encouragement from buyers and other maker's alike. And definitely from former and current customer's it let's them know they are making a quality product that people enjoy. And a confident maker is a better maker. As an example say I check a thread and see a knife I like, okay weather I see good feed back or not from other forum maker's and or former buyer's I'm still going to like the knife. But for people like me that have to save for months to purchase a knife looks alone are simply not going to be enough. And if I see no comments I'm going to be apprehensive because I don't want to risk my money on something I nor anyone else seems to have any experience with. Now the way its been since I've been hear weather right or wrong has prompted me to add several maker's to my list that I may have otherwise never given a chance. So you can take that fwiw and I want to add that I certainly don't mean any disrespect to the op.

 

[chippedblade]

I like seeing all the comments about the knives its good stuff.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let me see if I can clear up some of the questions we've had with the rules. They are intended to make your sales more visible, not less, and more informative.

Unnecessary chatter has got to go. That was one of the biggest problems we had, that led to Spark putting this update together. But what is truly unnecessary?

Some of you may not have read the new rules. Please take the time to go through them:

Rules for the Exchange forums - COMPLETELY REVISED, 10/30/2010
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=746&a=98​

Some of the questions that came up in this thread:

How many threads can you have? Two on the first page of a forum and up to four on the first two pages.
3.1.2. Individuals may have no more than TWO ads on Page 1 of any Sale or Trade forum, and FOUR ads within the first two pages.

How do I contact someone without email? If they want to sell, they must enable email. However, everyone has Visitor Messages, which are quick and convenient, and will pop up a notice in your header just like a PM when you get a response.
3.1.11 Sellers must have their profile set to allow contact from other members, moderators & administrators via email.

What is the problem with bumping? This is a big deal now but the rules are simple and will cut back on clutter, and stop others from pushing your sales off the front page so quickly.

First, do not post within 72 hours of anyone's previous post, yours or anothers.
Second, update information with an edit to the original post, not a new post.
Third, buyers can post questions but sellers must respond with email, PM, or Visitor Message.
Fourth, when an item is sold, mark it so in the original post.

3.1.13. Bumping threads
3.1.13.1. Keep in mind rule 3.1.2 above.
3.1.13.2. The Seller is not allowed to reply to their own ad within 72 hours of anyone's post (including their own) for any reason. The 72 hour countdown for the seller restarts with each new reply to the thread by ANYONE.
3.1.13.3. ALL CHANGES & UPDATES SHOULD BE DONE WITH THE EDIT FEATURE TO THE ORIGINAL AD, NOT BY ADDING ANOTHER RESPONSE.
3.1.13.4. If 72 hours have not passed since the last post by anyone, the seller should answer all questions by email, private message, or editing previous posts ONLY.
3.1.14. Please indicate in the original post after the item has been sold or traded. It'd be nice if you locked the thread too. (Not required, but it makes everyone's life easier)

What can buyers post? Any legitimate questions about the item for sale. I personally don't want to shut down buyers asking if the maker will be doing more of the model, or commenting on specific aspects of the item, but this is going to lead to some judgement calls. Is "Wow!" a legitimate comment? No ... but offline is always allowed.

First, no useless posts: no "mail sent" "PayPal received" "free bump" "nice knife". These hurt the other sellers.
Second, Keep back and forth discussion for discussion forums.
Third, make your counter offers offline.
Fourth, if you have a problem with the item or the price, do not post that in the thread. Do not damage the chance for a sale. Let the market decide what it's worth.
Fifth, if you buy the knife, do not return to the thread when it arrives to say how nice it is. Post that in FEEDBACK (GBU).

SECTION 4 - Rules for buyers (First, see section 2.2 above.)
4.1. Do not post "mail sent" or other similar replies to ads.
4.2. Do not bump threads with "Free bump for a nice guy" or "Beautiful [item]" or other similar posts.
4.3. Do not chat or discuss the items in the thread itself.
4.4. Do not post in an ad unless you are interested in the item / service that is being offered.
4.5. Do not post offers in threads.
4.6. ABSOLUTELY NO COMMENTARY OR FEEDBACK IN SOMEONE'S THREAD. Seriously, if you stomp on someone's ad, your account can and will be locked.

There will always be questions. You can always ask us. My email is my signature line.

 

[deovolens]

Could it be possible that the price would stay in the thread even after it was sold .

 

[fixer]

However, everyone has Visitor Messages, which are quick and convenient, and will pop up a notice in your header just like a PM when you get a response.

sorry, in my experience the VM here does NOT work reliably.

i've received notices that i had a VM, but have been unable to access it. it seems that you get ONE SHOT to read a VM, and after that, IT'S GONE. i'm running the latest version of Firefox on a fairly decent machine, it's not the latest and greatest, but it's not quite an obsolete klunker, so i don't expect it to be a problem on my end.

once i was able to pull up all my VMs, but now i can't. no clue why that is. and i'm fairly tech savvy, so i don't think i'm missing a button to read it.

sooo, i'm gonna say that not EVERYONE truly has VM.

this is the only forum i've ever been on that doesn't allow everyone to use PM. on some, different levels of membership have bigger inboxes, but everything has allowed PM, even for non paying members.

ok, finally found out how to hit VM, but it's still seems to be an akward system.