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What are the laws for carrying a Kukri sized knife in a vehicle?

Discussion in 'Knife Laws' started by HighlanderNorth, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. HighlanderNorth

    HighlanderNorth

    43
    Jun 23, 2012
    Thats the one thing I've been concerned with here. When I was younger and we lived out in rural areas, in between moving as a result of my Dad taking every transfer offered to him by the company he worked for, my friends and I used to carry pocket knives and even fixed blade knives with us here and there because the only things to do were to go fishing, hunting, etc. Plus we were in Scouts and all, so we always owned knives.

    But when I turned 19, I moved out to a mid sized town in Delware, a college town, with many liberal-anti knife types all over, and I heard you could get in trouble for carrying a knife, even if you had no intent of ever using it as a weapon. So I stopped carrying knives from then on. I bought a new Gerber multi-tool type knife back in 2007 right before backpacking the AT in Shenandoah natl park in winter.

    But now I've bought 2 Kukris recently, and I threw the Ontario Kukri into the back of my cab and drove to work the other day. Then I remembered seeing at least 2 episodes of "Cops" in recent years, where 2 different cops charged 2 different guys with Felony concealed deadly weapon charges, just for having a stupid folding pocket knife on their dash or in the cup holder under some papers or under a MacDonalds wrapper! They clearly werent trying to "conceal" these knives, they just had messy vehicles with papers laying on top of the knife, but they still got charged!

    So after remembering that, I removed the Kukri from the cab, and placed it on top of the rear fender in the bed, out in the open, where any cop who might pull me over for whatever reason can see it isnt "concealed". But I dont know if thats good enough, and some police will certainly charge you for something bogus. They can say it was concealed, even if its sitting in the middle of the bed out in the open! It would be your word against theirs.

    So I read a website where a guy has entered the knife laws for every state. But after reading it, I'm more confused than before! Those laws are written in "Lawyer speak". They are usually redundant, and the same thing is written over and over with slight, confusing differences. The one thing they do keep stating over and over is that you are supposedly allowed to have a "pocket knife" with a blade under 3", BUT...then they say you WILL be charged with a felony if the knife is made for causing harm to people! Well, any knife can cause harm to people, so what is a knife that is "made for causing harm?" If you buy a 3" tactical folder, maybe they can charge you with a felony, because the knife is a "tactical knife" which they can claim is designed to harm people! Even if its blade is 3" or under.

    The term "pocket knife" is a term from the 1920's to 1970's. Back then there werent any "tactical folders" for sale everywhere, and all knives that folded were called "pocket knives". Its not so cut and dry these days!

    I just want to carry the Kukri for my landscaping business to cut branches, slash through briars before removing the stumps, general thick brush cutting, etc. I'm not carrying it as a weapon, but since they can claim that it is "designed to harm people", could I be charged with a felony even if it isnt concealed?

    These laws need to be rewritten, but I live in a blue state, and the liberals are certainly anti-knife and anti-gun, just like they are everywhere else! They want them off the streets and out of our possession, and they dont care if people are unfairly charged with felonies for no legitimate reason, as long as they achieve their goals.........:mad:

    What do you think? Can I get charged with a felony in De for carrying a Kukri in the back of my truck?
     
  2. bladeright

    bladeright

    182
    Sep 5, 2011
    all states and places are different, can be different between towns also

    but
    for texas i believe with the castle doctrine you can have any size weapon.
    for texas i know for fact you can have a handgun loaded open carried gun without a license being lawful
    there is also constitutional carry clauses in multiple states also

    yes sorry i didnt get everything out correctly, was busy at moment and forgot 2 words

    can open carry on personal property, business if business allows(mine does), and in car(car is considered personal property like house)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
  3. HighlanderNorth

    HighlanderNorth

    43
    Jun 23, 2012
    Thats the one thing I've been concerned with here. When I was younger and we lived out in rural areas, in between moving as a result of my Dad taking every transfer offered to him by the company he worked for, my friends and I used to carry pocket knives and even fixed blade knives with us here and there because the only things to do were to go fishing, hunting, etc. Plus we were in Scouts and all, so we always owned knives.

    But when I turned 19, I moved out to a mid sized town in Delware, a college town, with many liberal-anti knife types all over, and I heard you could get in trouble for carrying a knife, even if you had no intent of ever using it as a weapon. So I stopped carrying knives from then on. I bought a new Gerber multi-tool type knife back in 2007 right before backpacking the AT in Shenandoah natl park in winter.

    But now I've bought 2 Kukris recently, and I threw the Ontario Kukri into the back of my cab and drove to work the other day. Then I remembered seeing at least 2 episodes of "Cops" in recent years, where 2 different cops charged 2 different guys with Felony concealed deadly weapon charges, just for having a stupid folding pocket knife on their dash or in the cup holder under some papers or under a MacDonalds wrapper! They clearly werent trying to "conceal" these knives, they just had messy vehicles with papers laying on top of the knife, but they still got charged!

    So after remembering that, I removed the Kukri from the cab, and placed it on top of the rear fender in the bed, out in the open, where any cop who might pull me over for whatever reason can see it isnt "concealed". But I dont know if thats good enough, and some police will certainly charge you for something bogus. They can say it was concealed, even if its sitting in the middle of the bed out in the open! It would be your word against theirs.

    So I read a website where a guy has entered the knife laws for every state. But after reading it, I'm more confused than before! Those laws are written in "Lawyer speak". They are usually redundant, and the same thing is written over and over with slight, confusing differences. The one thing they do keep stating over and over is that you are supposedly allowed to have a "pocket knife" with a blade under 3", BUT...then they say you WILL be charged with a felony if the knife is made for causing harm to people! Well, any knife can cause harm to people, so what is a knife that is "made for causing harm?" If you buy a 3" tactical folder, maybe they can charge you with a felony, because the knife is a "tactical knife" which they can claim is designed to harm people! Even if its blade is 3" or under.

    The term "pocket knife" is a term from the 1920's to 1970's. Back then there werent any "tactical folders" for sale everywhere, and all knives that folded were called "pocket knives". Its not so cut and dry these days!

    I just want to carry the Kukri for my landscaping business to cut branches, slash through briars before removing the stumps, general thick brush cutting, etc. I'm not carrying it as a weapon, but since they can claim that it is "designed to harm people", could I be charged with a felony even if it isnt concealed?

    These laws need to be rewritten, but I live in a blue state, and the liberals are certainly anti-knife and anti-gun, just like they are everywhere else! They want them off the streets and out of our possession, and they dont care if people are unfairly charged with felonies for no legitimate reason, as long as they achieve their goals.........

    What do you think? Can I get charged with a felony in De for carrying a Kukri in the back of my truck?

    Thanks.........
     
  4. wildmike

    wildmike

    Nov 17, 2007
    Most states will consider it an agricultural implement, especially if carried with your other tools. The other option is in the trunk.
     
  5. falar

    falar Gold Member Gold Member

    738
    Jul 7, 2012
    Open carry is NOT legal in Texas. Just left there after a great fifteen year stay.
     
  6. sweetcostarica

    sweetcostarica Banned BANNED

    619
    Jan 18, 2012
    This is the problem: you said, "What do you think?". In regards to gun and knife laws never ask someone else about your responsibilities. I know you asked this innocently but if you take someone's good intentioned advice and get in trouble with the Law... well you know what will happen.
    When I took CCW class in Nevada I learned this: It is my responsibility to know the current gun laws (which include other deadly weapons). So check you local city and state laws to get the right answer to your important question.
    nevada-firearm-knife-and-weapon-law-compendium.jpg
     
  7. HighlanderNorth

    HighlanderNorth

    43
    Jun 23, 2012


    If you read my OP, I posted there that I had already read the official statutes from De law pertaining to knife carry, but pointed out that it isnt clear. Its all lawyer speak. Its not written in a way that the average Joe can understand, and the terms used are often old terms that dont apply today. The whole point of the thread was to see if anyone happens to know. I can read it again and again, but still be charged with a felony tomorrow because much of it doesnt make sense. If it was clear, I wouldnt have posted the thread. I dont live in Nevada......
     
  8. MagenDavid

    MagenDavid Want some Kosher Salami?

    492
    Nov 2, 2008
    With the warning in mind that I'm not giving professional legal advice, I'll offer that laws against "knives designed to harm people" are usually leverage for police officers to confiscate weapons from people who look like or are actively causing trouble. Further, it's another charge that a prosecutor can throw at a criminal for leverage on a plea bargain.
    If you have an especially "badge heavy" officer or someone just in a bad mood, they might interpret your knife as malevolent anyway, but that's a special issue. For an officer intent on interpreting the law against you, your best defense is to cooperate fully and have a good lawyer on retainer.
    Most of the time, though, if you're keeping a low profile, acting natural, and generally obeying the law, the police aren't going to interpret the laws against you. If they do take issue, be polite and have a good reason to be carrying your knife.
    All that said, I can't speak for the disposition of your local law enforcement. Where I'm from in West Virginia, I'd occasionally khukuris to work and no one cared, and no one ever cared if I had a pocket knife even on a college campus. By contrast, the NYPD will arrest and charge you if they see so much as a pocket clip or printing, and the prosecutor will take it to trial. But NYC has chosen to interpret New York's laws as making all locking folders illegal.
     
  9. bladeright

    bladeright

    182
    Sep 5, 2011
    i meant to add personal property and car but was extremely busy and forgot those essential words, which it is legal(but not in public), though you can conceal carry without license too and from your work to car if work permits you have a gun at work. i open carry at business, car, and house. i have seen cops at my business while open carry without 1 word said, and its easy to see full size 1911
     
  10. bladeright

    bladeright

    182
    Sep 5, 2011
    if you want to learn some rights, start with some common law stuff, black's dictionary maybe 4-5 edition, boviers law dictionary 1926/38. they have real definitions of words, not statue definition. learn your rights and drop the federal jursidiction's.

    heres bouviers online dictionary of person, still applied in the court of law throughout the world tmk
    http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier_p.htm
    PERSON. This word is applied to men, women and children, who are called natural persons. In law, man and person are not exactly-synonymous terms. Any human being is a man, whether he be a member of society or not, whatever may be the rank he holds, or whatever may be his age, sex, &c. A person is a man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 137.

    2. It is also used to denote a corporation which is an artificial person. 1 Bl. Com. 123; 4 Bing. 669; C. 33 Eng. C. L R. 488; Wooddes. Lect. 116; Bac. Us. 57; 1 Mod. 164.

    3. But when the word "Persons" is spoken of in legislative acts, natural persons will be intended, unless something appear in the context to show that it applies to artificial persons. 1 Scam. R. 178.

    4. Natural persons are divided into males, or men; and females or women. Men are capable of all kinds of engagements and functions, unless by reasons applying to particular individuals. Women cannot be appointed to any public office, nor perform any civil functions, except those which the law specially declares them capable of exercising. Civ. Code of Louis. art. 25.

    5. They are also sometimes divided into free persons and slaves. Freemen are those who have preserved their natural liberty, that is to say, who have the right of doing what is not forbidden by the law. A slave is one who is in the power of a master to whom he belongs. Slaves are sometimes ranked not with persons but things. But sometimes they are considered as persons for example, a negro is in contemplation of law a person, so as to be capable of committing a riot in conjunction with white men. 1 Bay, 358. Vide Man.

    6. Persons are also divided into citizens, (q. v.) and aliens, (q. v.) when viewed with regard to their political rights. When they are considered in relation to their civil rights, they are living or civilly dead; vide Civil Death; outlaws; and infamous persons.

    7. Persons are divided into legitimates and bastards, when examined as to their rights by birth.

    8. When viewed in their domestic relations, they are divided into parents and children; hushands and wives; guardians and wards; and masters and servants son, as it is understood in law, see 1 Toull. n. 168; 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 1890, note.


    MAN. A human being. This definition includes not only the adult male sex of the human species, but women and children; examples: "of offences against man, some are more immediately against the king, other's more immediately against the subject." Hawk. P. C. book 1, c. 2, s. 1. Offences against the life of man come under the general name of homicide, which in our law signifies the killing of a man by a man." Id. book 1, c. 8, s. 2.

    2. In a more confined sense, man means a person of the male sex; and sometimes it signifies a male of the human species above the age of puberty. Vide Rape. It was considered in the civil or Roman law, that although man and person are synonymous in grammar, they had a different acceptation in law; all persons were men, but all men, for example, slaves, were not persons, but things. Vide Barr. on the Stat. 216, note.



    are you a man or person?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
  11. davidf99

    davidf99 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    Sounds like this particular law dictionary hasn't been updated for a while.

    Now I'm curious about whether carrying a khukuri in a locked box in the back of your truck might be construed as an offense against the king?
     
  12. MagenDavid

    MagenDavid Want some Kosher Salami?

    492
    Nov 2, 2008
    I'd think not. I mean, if so, wouldn't the Ghurkas be in violation of the king's law?
     
  13. thebrain

    thebrain

    Dec 12, 2007
    I once read a few magazine articles about this subject and the general idea was most states(surely not all) would allow you to carry items used for "your work" like a person who works on cars would get away with having a screw driver on them or a painter could have a 5in1 tool .But say you are a painter by trade and they think you look like a person who has broken into houses in the area, when they "talk" to you and you have a screw driver in your pocket you will go to jail for having burglars tools .Even if it has paint on it and you have carried it for years to open cans. I think in your case it would be a good idea to stop a "friendly" LEO from your area and ask him what he thinks ,I say thinks because I have asked many officers in my area and they all have a different answer about what they thought the law was. I know I was of no real help but you know how the interweb is.
     
  14. sweetcostarica

    sweetcostarica Banned BANNED

    619
    Jan 18, 2012
    You are asking questions about Laws and regulations on Delaware Law on the internet to the average Joes. How will you know who has the right answer and who is wrong? Please check with your local Police and a really good continuously updated site is:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    Pdf for deadly weapon (knife):
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf
    I know you do not live in Nevada and if you read my post you would know I was talking about where I had lived and what I studied as an example. This serious topic is important to get the right answers and guess work is dangerous to all who read it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  15. MagenDavid

    MagenDavid Want some Kosher Salami?

    492
    Nov 2, 2008
    For what it's worth, I think the OP was more about venting frustration with legal language and trying to find where to look for answers, rather than finding professional legal advice. I couldn't fault him either; some states in the East have brutally long and complicated criminal legislation when it comes to defining weapons.
    You are right, though, as is thebrain, about finding people who enforce the laws and seeing how they interpret it. That's a much more certain method than asking the sharks of the HI forum. And this thread had probably best served its purpose by pointing him in that direction.
     
  16. bladeright

    bladeright

    182
    Sep 5, 2011
    tmk

    those law books are still authoritative and most all the info their has never been overturned. blacks law up to 5 edition had lots of case law and real legal definitions. bouviers and blacks are great common law dictionary's and common law is the lawful courts system in this country

    for example, if you claim you are a person, you can be considered a corporation. your all capital name JOHN DOE is a corporate name. John Doe is a man name. through joinder and the courts assumption and trickery, they claim and charge the corporate name only.

    look at original birth record/ long form birth certificate, your name is John Doe(upper lower), go look at short form birth certificate and it shows all upper case JOHN DOE, drivers license, social security, all government documents tmk are JOHN DOE(or the corporate name)


    here's a big kicker for everyone in America
    if you were born here, by law you are born with 2 nationalities, an American(sovereign jursidiction) and the other is a US citizen(federal jurisdiction)
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401 , http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1452 ,


    if we as Americans learn to use the true constitutionally correct form of law and use the common law courts correctly we would have lots more money and freedoms

    ill leave it at that, it could be a starting point for information though :D
     
  17. sweetcostarica

    sweetcostarica Banned BANNED

    619
    Jan 18, 2012
    Agreed. Thank you MagenDavid for your common scene and wisdom on this topic. I am being extremely serious in this matter because I see a lot of illegal and sometimes downright dangerous advice given on this and other forums regarding the carrying (usually concealed) and/or transportation of weapons, i.e. Kukris.

    Being in Security I have witnessed the trouble legally and financially some individual have gotten themselves into. I won't go through scenarios but I'll end saying sure the Law is complicated and you do need help understanding it.

    Personally, I think the Legal System is a racket to keep as many Lawyers and Judges employed as possible. There's nothing we can do about it but to know and obey the laws until a better system comes about. Because of what I wrote above internet forums are not a safe place to do this.
     
  18. sweetcostarica

    sweetcostarica Banned BANNED

    619
    Jan 18, 2012
    You just nailed "Officer discretion".

    Delaware State Police.jpg
    So true thebrain. That is why I tell people to go to the Police Station. In the Station you have more Officers, secretaries, and the right Law books for checking.
     
  19. Shann

    Shann

    Sep 2, 2004
    The law is different everywhere, so be careful about generalized advice. For example, here, the statutes find that "zip guns" "switchblades" with blades over 3" long, slung shot, blackjacks, brass knuckles and supressors are illegal. Other than that, there are no other state restrictions on carrying anything (well not in schools, courts, etc). BUT carrying anything with intent to harm makes it a deadly weapon, so it ends up a discretionary thing. Therefore, it could be argued that if you used a weapon in self defense you "intended" to harm your attacker and they would be in their right to charge you (although you could argue self defense obviously)
     
  20. Sidehill Gouger

    Sidehill Gouger

    Dec 29, 2007
    It is not clear to me why you have the kukri in your truck driving around town in the first place. My own truck has all kinds of axes, machetes, shovels and other tools in it but I live on a small ranch and work in the woods a lot of the time. If you work for say a landscaping company and use it on the job, you should be safe most places. But if you just think you need a huge knife for "just in case" it is probably going to be harder to explain to the law.
     

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