0560 elmax ??

rodriguez7

rodriguez7

Gila wilderness knife works
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
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Anyone know what the hardness on the 0560 blade is? Anyone test the edge retention?
 
Mine holds an edge very well. I've used it for quite a bit of cutting, and I've only sharpened it twice since I got it. Right now out of the pocket, it pops hairs off the arm.

Last time I sharpened it was 3 weeks ago before I left for a road trip to Atlanta for Blade.

Moose
 
i just took the factory edge off mine, was sharp and stayed sharp forever but it just wasnt shaving and that was after a few weeks

touched it to my 1200 mesh EF DMT then to a translucent arkansas then to strop with green compound, hair flys off my arm now LOL :D

anyway my bets are 60HRC ish
 
Don't know the hardness. It quit shaving pretty fast, though, with only what I would call light duty. It is still VERY toothy, but it would only scrape hair at best. Spyderco white ceramic didn't do quite what I wanted for it, so I tried their brown ceramic. That did the trick, toothy, but back to shaving.

It does OK, but I would never recommend anyone buy the 560 for the ELMAX. I've yet to see a super-steel live up to the hype. The 560 is EASILY worth the money, but not based solely on the steel. Based on the workmanship and materials, though, it is tops.
 
rockspyder said:
Don't know the hardness. It quit shaving pretty fast, though, with only what I would call light duty. It is still VERY toothy, but it would only scrape hair at best. Spyderco white ceramic didn't do quite what I wanted for it, so I tried their brown ceramic. That did the trick, toothy, but back to shaving.

It does OK, but I would never recommend anyone buy the 560 for the ELMAX. I've yet to see a super-steel live up to the hype. The 560 is EASILY worth the money, but not based solely on the steel. Based on the workmanship and materials, though, it is tops.
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ELMAX isn't a "super" steel because of its edge retention. So you judging the steel on that merit would of course leave you disappointed. ELMAX's claim to fame is toughness, and its edge retention is just slightly better than S30V.
 
Well, that explains it! Although it doesn't much change my answer about the 560 and ELMAX. Just that I was expecting the wrong thing.
 
One reason I grabbed a second 0551 last year was the combined edge keeping and ease of resharpening of the Elmax. Of course, another reason was that it was nearly my ideal knife! I had become fond of Bohler m390, as in my BM 0755 & 581, too - for the same characteristics. My two S35VN examples, a CRK Nyala fb and a small Sebbie, have also impressed me. Again, at least as much edge retention and less time on the Sharpmaker files to regain hair-popper status than my previous standard - S30V. So, the Elmax was causal in my 561 purchase decision. Oddly, I am still more fond of the 0551 - I guess I just don't appreciate the flipper!

Stainz
 
Elmax sharpens like a high grade carbon steel, yet it is stainless. It does what it does better than just about any steel on the market.
 
jfever311 said:
Elmax sharpens like a high grade carbon steel, yet it is stainless. It does what it does better than just about any steel on the market.
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I just don't understand this. I'm NOT knocking ELMAX, nor the 560, nor the price thereof. HOWEVER, this is far from my experience with ELMAX vs. carbon steels, although I will admit that I do not have experience with S3V nor W2. But it does not sharpen like M2, CPM-M4, O1, A2, L6, 5160, 52100, or 1095, all of which I've sharpened, and used extensively except for 52100. It DOES hold its edge comparable to a well-treated A2 or 5160. Better than 1095 and L6. But not NEARLY as well as M2 or M4. It IS a good steel, and apparently it is tougher than any other stainless. Which is great, but apparently I've never stressed the toughness of any other stainless, because I've never had a problem with them due to lack of toughness.
 
Just trying to decide if the upgrade from the 0550 to the 0560 is worth it. S35vn has been surprising me lately.
 
You must use a lot of CPM M4 or S125V. :D If Elmax has better abrasion resistance than S30V, that means that it has better abrasion resistance than the vast majority of commonly used knife steels. With that said, i suspect that Elmax is tough only in comparison to other stainless steels and pales in comparison to stuff like 3V or L6. The best numbers that I have ever seen even for a nitrogen steel that was true stainless (not INFI) was maybe 60-65% as tough as the typical numbers you see from 3V.
CrimsonTideShooter said:
ELMAX isn't a "super" steel because of its edge retention. So you judging the steel on that merit would of course leave you disappointed. ELMAX's claim to fame is toughness, and its edge retention is just slightly better than S30V.
Click to expand...
 
Let's put it this way... I would be overjoyed to get the performance of my 560 if it had the same steel as my 550. ELMAX may be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm not seeing the benefit over the S35VN of my 550.
 
jdm61 said:
You must use a lot of CPM M4 or S125V. :D If Elmax has better abrasion resistance than S30V, that means that it has better abrasion resistance than the vast majority of commonly used knife steels. With that said, i suspect that Elmax is tough only in comparison to other stainless steels and pales in comparison to stuff like 3V or L6. The best numbers that I have ever seen even for a nitrogen steel that was true stainless (not INFI) was maybe 60-65% as tough as the typical numbers you see from 3V.
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I didn't say it was more abrasion resistant, I said it had slightly better edge retention....the two are different - although abrasion resistance is one facet of edge retention.

Of course ELMAX will never be as tough as 3v, or any carbon steel for that matter. It's claim to fame is toughness, like I said. In it's class there is almost nothing that compares. :)
 
rockspyder said:
Let's put it this way... I would be overjoyed to get the performance of my 560 if it had the same steel as my 550. ELMAX may be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm not seeing the benefit over the S35VN of my 550.
Click to expand...

The benefit is toughness and ease of sharpening. Of course S35VN is fairly tough to begin with, but it can't hang with ELMAX.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
The benefit is toughness and ease of sharpening. Of course S35VN is fairly tough to begin with, but it can't hang with ELMAX.
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And I'm still failing to see your point?
Besides that, ELMAX has not been easier for me to sharpen than S35VN.
 
rockspyder said:
And I'm still failing to see your point?
Besides that, ELMAX has not been easier for me to sharpen than S35VN.
Click to expand...

There is no point, just giving you info. Just as an FYI, "ease of sharpening" is very subjective. Your singular experience doesn't negate chemistry and physics. :)
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
There is no point, just giving you info. Just as an FYI, "ease of sharpening" is very subjective. Your singular experience doesn't negate chemistry and physics. :)
Click to expand...

Toughness or ease of sharpening? Ease of sharpening IS very subjective, but when the ease of sharpening of one person is across many different alloys of steel (and heat treatments), then the relative ease of sharpening cannot be negated. As for toughness, won't disagree, that is a matter of chemistry and physics. But in a blade the size of the 560, IMO, and yes, it is just an opinion, the difference in toughness between ELMAX and, say, lowly 440C is largely moot. Step up to simply
a fixed blade, and it becomes much more important.

Having a blade of ELMAX, as well as blades of many other steels, I cannot and would not recommend a person buy a knife based purely on its blade being made of ELMAX. Even by KAI, who I think do a great job of heat treating steels.
 
I suppose the greatest thing I've enjoyed with ELMAX is the fact that it responds to my ultra-fine Hand American kitchen steel very much like a non-stainless does. Other high carbon stainless steels seem to work-harden very quickly when burnished, and will begin to lose the edges to chipping after burnishing (nothing catastrophic just noticeable shiny spots on the edge when shined under a light) whereas ELMAX seems to be ductile enough, even at high hardness, to just keep getting realigned back to hair-flinging sharpness without the need to abrade much steel off via actual sharpening. I've been using my 560 for EVERYTHING and finally had to actually pull some steel off a few weeks ago to get the edge back into fighting trim. With the sheer amount of cutting I've been doing, however, it really is fairly remarkable. Less than a minute spent on a kitchen steel after using the knife just keeps it going and going and going.

THAT is why alloy toughness is a boon in a folder or anything else--it's something that users of carbon-steel slipjoint pocket knives have understood for years, even in the absence of batoning through logs or chopping bones.. Unless you're doing nothing but cutting seriously abrasive media all the time, your loss of sharpness likely is not a result of the edge actually being worn/ground down very much, but rather getting crushed/pushed a tad bit out of shape. A ductile steel can be pushed back into shape without becoming brittle, where the 154CMs and BG-42s of the world don't respond nearly as well to it.
 
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