1095 vs INFI ??? Real deal?

R

rookie4real

Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
546
I was doing research on ESEE knives and the steel they are made of because I am currently debating on buying Izula and Junglas knives.
So I came across another forum site ran by Nos-the guy who runs tests by destroying knives using a wise and a hammer. In the thread I read several guys really put down the 1095 steel like some garbage in comparision to the INFI. Even though I know that 1095 isn’t the best steel, from what I read before I was considering it to be a forgiving choice for a work horse knife, especially with a large blade such as Junglas.

I have never owned Busse and probably never will due to the ridiculously high price tag for a production fixed blade, but to me the guys who were advocating for it sounded a little biased, to say the least. From their words INFI is very expensive to produce and hard to work with where some of them said it shouldn’t even be compared to 1095.
I became a little skeptical because I have seen many reviews of Jungas in action, including the ones by Nutnfancy who highly praised the blade that stood very well after some hard use. I became even more skeptical after reading mixed opinions of what exactly INFI is; some stated it’s a plain old 1050 carbon steel with some additives to it others said that it’s some kind of a secret.

I don’t like being brainwashed and I don’t like fan boys. I can live with a fact that INFI is better than 1095 in some aspects but I have a hard time believing it will blow it in the dust. Also, those people mentioned that ESEE charge way too much for the knives made with 1095. I was able to find Junglas with sheath for $160 shipped, I think it’s a great deal for knife of that size with very good fit and finish from what I heard, comparing this to $600-$900 Mistress, I don’t know…

Do any other knifemakers use INFI for their blades or it exclusive to Busse? If so I suspect that they charge you the high price just for it being exclusive to them. It’s like Rolex watches that even non-watch people are raving about where there are many watch companies such as Omega or Breitling that give you more bang for your buck.

Another question I have is the blade thickness used in Junglas 3/16 for 10" blade, can it be a real issue? At the same thread people said that they wouldn't accept nothing less of 1/4" for a 6" hard use blade.

P.S. Maybe I should post this thread somewhere in a Busse forums too to get more facts and opinions, and to LOL cause I know how much hate I can get in return.
 
I would put forward the thought that it's best to not go getting all hung up on steel type. The steel type plays a part yes, but not as important of a part as heat treat. I have never owned a Busse, and likely never will unless I just run across a really good deal on one of the few smaller models I've seen that I really do like. I have owned several ESEE/Rowen made knives. I still own and use a few of them regularly. I have given a few as gifts because I trust them to function as advertised, and I plan to buy a few more. I really like the steel used and the heat treat. They are tough, work-horse knives that earn their keep and I have yet to have an ESEE knife fail me. Personally I would be far more likely to buy 4 Junglases than one mistress, and even more likely to buy just one and spend the rest of the money on other things. In all honesty I can see where someone could bring up handle comfort, that is a matter of personal tastes, but I would think that anyone who says ESEE charges too much for their knives has never really put one through it's paces out in the field. I have put them through some pretty rough paces and I am a repeat customer.
 
Last edited:
rookie4real said:
I don’t like being brainwashed and I don’t like fan boys. I can live with a fact that INFI is better than 1095 in some aspects but I have a hard time believing it will blow it in the dust. Also, those people mentioned that ESEE charge way too much for the knives made with 1095. I was able to find Junglas with sheath for $160 shipped, I think it’s a great deal for knife of that size with very good fit and finish from what I heard, comparing this to $600-$900 Mistress, I don’t know…

Do any other knifemakers use INFI for their blades or it exclusive to Busse? If so I suspect that they charge you the high price just for it being exclusive to them. It’s like Rolex watches that even non-watch people are raving about where there are many watch companies such as Omega or Breitling that give you more bang for your buck.
Click to expand...

hi there!
this has nothing to do with being brainwashed or not. I do agree on your point, that there are a lot of fanboys out there and you can't have a somewhat reasonable conversation with them.

However I think it sounds like you already have a strong opinion concerning Busse Combat and I am not really sure what to tell you. I do agree with you, that 160$ for a Junglas with sheath is a fantastic deal. But 100$ for a RTAK2 with sheath is a fantastic deal as well! 37$ for a Schrade Extreme 9 is awesome as well and 10 bucks for an Opinel is also sick value!!!
The point I want to make is that it's always depending on you individually what you want to spend on a blade.

I personally own more than a handfull of Busses and I could not be happier! But I do also own a LOT :D of other blades and they make me happy as well and they would be sufficient for 99.999% of the tasks I need em for as well...my feeling with Busse is that you do not only pay the quality (which is without a doubt beyond awesome!!!). It's also the hunt to get a certain blade, the rarity, the beauty of the object etc etc. This is ok for some and not ok for others....I love it, but you will never see me say: that brand sucks, this knife is BS or similar things...it's always a question of what you are looking for.

The ESEE Junglas is certainly a FANTASTIC knife and well worth the 160$, but the Mistress is worth the 600$ as well!!!! :D:D:D

so you have to decide for yourself what is right for you. I always try to set myself a spending limit and go from there otherwise you will NEVER be happy, because there is always a (seemingly) better blade that costs more!

If you say, 200$ is my max spending limit and I want a big chopper, then I think I'm 100% agreeing with you that the Junglas is probably the very best value for the money you can get!

Cheers!
 
rookie4real said:
P.S. Maybe I should post this thread somewhere in a Busse forums too to get more facts and opinions, and to LOL cause I know how much hate I can get in return.
Click to expand...

You might be surprised to find you can actually have a rational discussion on this topic by making the post in the Busse forum but calling folks who use, abuse and are satisfied with the results of INFI, "Brainwashed & Fanboys", is not the way to get non-hate responses.

By the way, there are quite a few of us INFI lovers who are also quite fond of our 1095 Rowen ESEE blades. I have a few and have sent a few off as gifts to relatives. Great working blades.

Proceed with caution.
 
Forgot to add........ The Junglas is Perfect at it's current thickness! You'll like using it and be even more satisfied carrying it.
 
While I really want a battle mistress, the conclusion I came to is that it is not going to chop down a tree 4X better or faster than the junglas why spend 4x the money. It has a high opportunity cost, you can certainly buy alot of other gear with the money you save.
 
ESEE's knives are made to be used. The warranty is second to none (you break it they replace it...period)

Many ESEE knife owners also have Busses and many Busse owners have ESEE blades. The are both great blades meant to have the snot beat out of them. You won't be disappointed either way.

As far as Nos and his methods, you can use google-fu or the search function here, but I would say you should value his opinion very little.

For what it sounds like you are looking for I don't think you will go wrong with the Junglas.
 
When I started looking in to ESEE here and on their website I started to get a good feel for the purpose behind their product. I am no steel expert and have never worked with INFI so I cannot really comment on a comparison. What I understood of their design was that they were looking to produce a hard use knife, that could be easily maintained in the field, for a good price to the consumer. It is these sort of things that lead you to the use of the 1095. As far as durability goes, again I cannot compare but knowing what I have put my Izula through with zero failure, I can't immagine asking much more out of knife. For those that may say ESEE is over priced, I think it is important to remember a warranty when making these purchases. Again not a comparison, but I do know that ESEE has any outstanding warranty that they actually stand behind. These are the things that led me to purchasing ESEE products.

This might not answer any questions or be of any use to you, just my .02
 
Thanks for reasonable posts, you pretty much reassured me of my concerns. To make it clear I did not mean to call fan boys all Busse owners lol, I know better than that, I was still under impression of the posts that I read at the other forum.
So yeah, I can understand paying the premiums for the aesthetics stand point, more detailed fit and finish, some upper scale materials and limited availability. I just could not agree with the statement Busse would shamelessly outperform quality knives with 1095 steel. I have no doubts INFI is not bad steel hence there is high demand for the Busses, but I think it won’t be as a huge gap in real life performance as some want us to believe. So to conclude my though I don’t have $600 for a camp knife that I would rarely use and I think I should have a plentiful satisfaction with a $160 Junglas that I’m going to get.
 
This has been done before, quite a few times in fact. I don't own any ESEE but I am perfectly willing to take the word of all its loyal and enthusiastic fans that it's a great brand.
I do own a few Busse's and they are awesome knives. They are expensive, and certainly their exclusivity is part of the price. But they are also very well designed, fantastically executed knives, tougher than anything else I have ever come across or even heard of. TO ME, they are worth every penny. Busse offer the same guarantee as ESEE, and like ESEE they are good for their word. If anything, they might even take it a bit further, if anecdotal evidence is anything to go by.

Have you considered that there may actually be more than one company that offers fantastic knives for the money, with an equally awesome warranty to back them up? Busse fans are not haters. I don't dwell in the Busse subforum much lately but the members there are almost all of them happy-go-lucky people. They are perfectly able to embrace other brands (and most do).

The world is a better place with both ESEE and Busse in it. You can pick and choose at will.

As for steel, I have never seen anyone knowledgeable put down 1095 steel, and if the HT is right, it's not easy to think of a better steel for a hard use beater. For the money, I'd say it's impossible.
INFI is not just the steel (which is proprietary if I recall correctly) it's also a long and involved HT process. There's a lot of controversy about the noss4 video's, but IMHO there is little doubt that INFI absorbs more abuse than any other steel before it finally cracks.
You may have noticed however that the 'humble' 1095 Rat Cutlery knives are almost on a par... ;)
 
any steel will break, bend, or roll given the right conditions.

Both the 1095 of ESEE and the INFI of Busse are very great steels, and both will tend to be a better and stronger steel than 99.9% of users actually really need.


I have both ESEE and Busse (and Bussekin) knives and here are my thoughts:

-ESEE tends to be among your best bang for the buck knives available, and is along the lines of Swamp Rat knives in the price:blade size ratio
-Busse tends to be more collectible, easier to resale at what you paid or more (even used!), more customizable, and also extremely solid working blades
-As many people have stated, the heat treat is really more important than the steel type. You can have someone who used the INFI formula but gave it a garbage heat treat, and you'll have a garbage knife. Likewise with the 1095. Both companies do excellent heat treats.
-Both companies have excellent warranties. The only wording difference I can find is that ESEE allows for purposeful damage too...Busse's warranty I believe is any uninentional. But that really only applies if your plan is to purposefully buy a knife just to destroy it, right? You don't sound like that's what you're looking for.
-Both companies have steller customer service and both will take care of you.


Conclusion? You can't go wrong with either. If you have a few extra bucks, try a Busse out and see for yourself if you agree with all the hype. I personally love Busse and Bussekin blades. If you don't have the extra cash, or can't see spending it on a Busse/kin knife, then pick up an ESEE.

In the end I'm betting you'll end up like the majority of us: having a little bit of everything :)
 
Last edited:
I know exactly what thread you are referring to and either you dug it up from a year ago in the archives or they are still snowballing this INFI/1095 ESEE hate thing... IIRC, going on about how the ESEE boys think their 1095 is gold, indestructible etc.. Really guys, come on.. While INFI is probably better as pointed out it boils down to the HT.. I used to get all in a bunch about steel as well, now though I'm a realist and go with what works 'for me' with trial and error and is still affordable enough to have fun with it..

They say ESEE charges to much because in that thread they aren't only downing 1095 but ESEE owners in general, so they have to look at the owners and the steel to be inferior to justify their ramblings, many other company's offer 1095 why pick on ESEE??

Because they're jealous:D
 
KennyB said:
I wouldn't worry about comparing steels, Rowen's 1095 is what it is. I suppose there's some bit about a proprietary heat treat process that Rowen does, but regardless... Here's another video to testify a little more to the Junglas' strength.

http://www.eseeknives.com/junglastest.AVI
Click to expand...

Wow :eek:
Imagine somebody stand in the direction where the blade went.
Great representation of the steel's flexibility, now I'm not concerned that blade is going to snap on me while I'm chopping with it.
 
I still do not know what magic some "high end" steel has that I will have a need for.
Most steels from 440c and aus8 up will do a fine job for most people.
Hard use knives? what is the steel used in knives used by Butchers and Slaughterhouse workers?
They would be about as hard use as you get for constant use every day, they are a tradesmans tools.
I am not talking about splitting wood etc, that is the job for an Axe.
 
You don't want to post this in a busse forum they will want to hang u . I own a boss street and a esee 4 I beat the four more then any other knife I own , it was a gift and I wasn't into knives that much yeat thousands of dollars later and here I am . Yeah infi is the better steel but the esee took everything I could throw at it and yeah if u break it they will replace it so I would say save ur cash and go esee . One saide note I rusted up the 1095 pretty bad but not beyond repair plowing snow with window open need it open when doing coldasacs in developments infi has never rusted and I bushcrafted in a snow storm
 
Infi can and will rust.

1095 can and will rust.



1095 will rust slightly easier, with INFI it really depends on the finish. Things like double cut will rust very easily but a satin finish for instance will take a lot more to make it rust.

The coating ESEE puts on 1095 goes a long way towards preventing anything but edge rust.

Just take care of your blades and any rust should be fairly easy to fix.
 
I don't own any INFI, but from what I've seen it's one of the toughest steels out. That being said, I own a fair few Esee knives (as well as other 1095 knives) and while the INFI MAY be "tougher", I'd quite comfortably baton some of the larger 1095 knives through a car door. So the discrepancy in "toughness" between the two ,for me, only becomes an issue if I plan on doing something of a more extreme nature than that (which I don't).
 
I think the real question for ANY two steels is not which is BETTER, but can YOU tell the difference?

Simply put, the Junglas gets some pretty strong reviews and there is some argument regarding how sharp it really needs (or does not need) to be (as a chopper). For the guys that have owned a Junglas for a long time and NEVER sharpened it, and never had a complaint....I think it would be tough to convince them that anything is DISCERNIBLY better for their needs.
 
I personally like those videos.... why...... cause I know I will never take my knives to that extreme. From watching those test, I think you know what your getting before you buy. The Esse did quite well in those test. Busse does quite well also. If your just starting out, I would recommend ESSE knives and if you want a taste of Busse, get a SwampRat for a much cheaper price, yet outstanding quality that is close to INFI. You can't go wrong anyway you go. There seems to be many that own ESSE and Busse/kin and both get high marks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top