440C triple quench

A

allan lanigan

Joined
May 16, 2001
Messages
268
Has anyone else tried 440c triple quench,I recently finished a fillet knife using this method outlined in a previous thread and am impressed with the results,had a sucessful fishing trip and feild tested the knife,Now i like to put it to more extreme tests,any ideas,so far it passed chopping 2x4 in half, wacking on a knot and brass rod test, and sliced a pop can in half...
 
Do you know precisely what temperature you used on the draw? Thanks.
 
I heated the blade to non magnetic,and quenched in oil , i repeated this step 3 times leting cool between quenches.the blade is a 9inch fillet knife useing 1/8 stock with a distal taper.On the first try i tested with a file and noted only the tip hardened back about 4". After some experimenting Eg. moved the quench tank closer to the forge and blade fully hardened. I noted very little scale. i tripled tempered the blade at 350 degrees three times.
 
A properly tempered blade when pressed against a 1/4" brass rod will deflect slightly and return to straight. Too high a temper temperature and the edge stays bent (over softened). Too low, the edge will chip out (not softened enough). Clamp the rod in a vise so half of it is exposed, and press the edge into it at about the angle used for sharpening. This technique is explained more completely in Wayne Goddard's books, which is where I first read about it.
 
Ok thanks. I apparently had misunderstood before what a Brass rod test was, i thought i was supposed to chop into one and see no dammage to my blade, at least that is what i have been doing on the last 2 i made. Do you move the blade on the rod, or do you just test differnet pieces of the blade to see if it is good doing it the way you described?
 
Terry the way i do the brass rod test is to place the blade on the rod starting at the racassio and drawing the full length over rod i will do this on both sides of the blade i think the angle i use would be about 20 degress. with my eyes i use a magnifly glass and hope to see a deflection the same from end to end..
 
Allan: I would recomend the hemp rope cutting test. Take one lay out of a 1" hemp rope, place the lay on a wooden block and cut it into as many 1/32 inch pieces as you can. Then try the same test with some knife you like and keep in your shop. this will be your reference knife. Do a couple of trials with each blade, sharpening them between tests.
Keep a record of the performance of both blades in a permanent book that has all the information you feel is pertinate. Then keep going, the brass rod test is a good one, so is the rope cutting. They are repeatable and as you practice they will be very reliable. These two tests get right to the heart of knife performance.

Thanks for sharing and take care
 
Got some 1"hemp rope ,boy is it some tough,so far tests are inclusive. I think i need help with this,How is the cut made? Eg. slice ,draw, push,using two hands. Or is my sharping at fault. In comparision to some other blades the 440c compares but i don't have a similar blade to compare it to. Is all hemp rope similar......????/
 
The cutting can be done in any way you want. As long as you do it the same way each time you can get informative comparisions. Doing a draw (slice) towards you is common. Fowler does it that way as do a lot of other custom makers, Wilson, Goddard etc., Busse does straight push cuts. If you are slicing the more aggressive the edge (coarse), the better (to a point, extremely coarse edges [40 grit ZO] tend to lower the performance), for push cuts, the more polished the better. The hardest part is deciding when to stop as it isn't trivial to judge when a blade has blunted to a certain level. Goddard used a scale to do the cutting so he could judge when to stop by the force getting too high, but even that doesn't make it a trivial matter as blunting isn't a linear process. Experience is key.

As for the rope, I have gone through over a dozen rolls of hemp and they were all identical to the first roll which I kept for comparison purposes to make sure this wasn't a problem. It isn't easy to make the cuts in a consistent manner so you can expect some variance as you do it the first few times and work the bugs out. The way in which you draw the blade across the rope has a vast influence. This includes the angle at which you hold it (tilted to one side or the other), or the angle at which it ramps over the rope. So for example holding the blade at say a 20 degree angle, is different than drawing it across the rope with the edge flat to the cutting board. Even the way in which you hold the rope with your off hand can influence the results, for example grasp it very tightly close to where you are cutting compared to loosly further away. Repeating the cutting as Ed noted is very critical, as it allows you to judge just how consistent you can be which will make the results more meaningful.

-Cliff
 
Reread Eds post,I was not using 1 lay but rather the three strands thus my dispointment,The knife is now in the hands of a guide for further evaluation.Ishould have some more 440c here next week and will continue testing. Thanks to J.neilson who inspired me to try the quench method Thanks to Ed and Cliff for their valued input.
 
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