A Steel Question

rprocter

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with regards to traditional folders and fixed blades intended for hunting use (i.e. a slicer more than chopper), is there a "real world" advantage of the more expensive stainless steels such as ATS-34,154-CM, BG 42, S30V, VG 10, etc., over 440C ? most makers harden whatever steel they are using to about Rc58 - 60, so relative ease of sharpening would be similar. by "real world" i mean that neither of these types of knives is usually put to the extreme of hard use. so would the main difference for the user be one of edge holding ? and despite the differences imparted by their differing compositions, is any noticeable benefit imparted.
i would like to hear both from the perspective of those who make knives as well as those with some considerable experience in using a variety of knives (probably a smaller group than the makers as most of us are really "knife admirers"). thanks, roland
 
thank you, i have read all of Joe Talmadge's thread and possibly every thread about steels for the past year. really, that is what spurred my question: for knife types mentioned above and for the usual type of use they endure, is there a noticeable difference between the performance of 440C and the newer stainless steels ? and for the knife makers, are some steels more difficult to get the blade exactly as you want it ?
note: at first i was really drawn in to the "super" steels, but every advantage has a trade-off in some other property. so is the net result for "regular type" use, significantly better ? roland
 
well, not much response so far. i am of the impression that when a knife maker uses 440C for a hunter or folder, many potential buyers assume the knife to be inferior as a newer stainless was not used. i also think that the performance of 440C in most situations, is close to that of these newer steels. however i lack sufficient field experience with a variety of steels to know if this is really so. roland
 
The premium steels appear to allow you to be more aggressive with the edge profile. Something like SG2 can be set up with a very thin edge for super slicing capability without being too fragile (although chopping seems to be contraindicated).

Rick
 
I can only answer from personal experience, not from surveys, tests, or testimonials. Don't take this as gospel, just for what it's worth. Custom knives can have a noticeable performance advantage, especially when done by a maker who has hunters as regular customers.

Some hunters are content with a blade that needs freshening on a single hunt, and that's fine. I prefer one capable of doing a whole job and finishing with a still-sharp blade. Field dressing can be done with most anything, but quartering and/or boning takes a very good blade. All things being equal, the latest steels are an advantage when correctly ground, treated, and edged.

440C can do it, but not with certainty on large game. I have used a Dozier Master Hunter and his D2 can do the job without question, still ready for more, where 440C would fall a little behind in ease of use toward the end of the job. The D2 continues to slice nicely where the 440C drags. All technical specifications aside, I think of D2 as stainless.

I had a well known VG-10 fail badly and faulted the steel before I got home, but found under magnification that it was my fault for not removing the entire burr. I can't offer an opinion yet. I'm going to give it another try. Don't rule out a blade based on one sour experience as so many tend to do. I thought it had chipped but it was only where the burr sections broke off leaving a ragged dull edge.

My comparison blade is a Pachmayr 200 that I rehandled in mesquite with a guard, 440C at Rc58. A flat ground drop point, it's a great blade that I think is as good as any for a fair comparison. I will not hesitate to use it any time because the difference with the latest steels is not enough to fret over.

S30V is worth it. The stuff keeps cutting well past what I have been used to with 440C blades from 20 or so years ago. A few bones will not be a problem so long as careless twisting and hacking on big hard stuff is not the routine. Mine is a USA Gerber Freeman that works very well. A BG-42 custom Buck seems about the same to me, lasting through the whole job with ease. AUS8 is OK, but not the genuine equal of hard 440C in my experience.

I have a custom in ATS-34 that I really like. It has a well-shaped handle and guard, tapered tang and Micarta scales, thick spine, stout tip, but is hollow ground. It's a great blade that also keeps a slicing edge without the touch-up I would expect to give 440C.

Lastly, I'll say two years ago a hunting friend quartered two elk on the same hunt saying he may need to resharpen his Gator (400 mystery steel, not 154CM) for the next season. I tend to believe it depends on one's expectations of how a blade should perform, but the 400 seemed to be better than expected.

I know this has been a little long-winded and random but it's a complex subject. My experience seems to me that a slicing blade profile, stout tip, handle design, and steel treatment are at least as important as superior steel alloy. Put them all in one hunting knife and it will be a winner. Finding all of these in a production blade takes a lot of searching. The difference is that a custom maker can do it for you to your expectations instead of aiming for the general market. :)Good hunting and regards. ss.
 
Even though my previous post was kind of long, I should have mentioned all have my own edge on them, so the comparisons are made with equivalent angles and thickness. ss.
 
thanks SS, that is a help. i just purchased here on BF a custom FB hunter with 440C. i have a Sebenza in S30V; Dozier in D2, R.Preston folder CPM 154; Fehrmann CPM 3V; T.A.Davison folder and FB by G.Beauchamp and T.Orr, all ATS-34 and many more knives with variety of steel. most of my hunting has been done before i got these knives. only got 1 deer this year and used the Fehrmann and Dozier whittler. need more than 1 life to try all these out, so i gotta ask others. roland
 
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