ACK! Knife confiscated!

madcap_magician

madcap_magician

Farts rainbows.
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Yeah, so I was at work the other day, (I'm a school security guard) and I had my knife confiscated. I admit it was slightly illegal (Piranha S30V Bodyguard auto) in my area. So mea maxima culpa on that one, but I wouldn't have been carrying it if it wasn't the only knife of mine that hasn't been sold at this point, and it has been important for ROTC and since I don't have fingernails. Shouldn't be too big of a deal, none of the supervisors thought I'd get fired over it, but they STILL confiscated it and I have to go in today to get it. Which pisses me off a little bit, because there is no policy against knives here, which means they didn't really have grounds to take it away in the first place.

You know what this means?

It means I get to get on my soapbox next week and rant about knives! Yay! I'm an op/ed columnist, so this will be fun. I have plenty of arguments, but what do y'all think I should include here? If you're a really qualified person, I can cite you if you use your name and position.
 
What's their side of the story? How did they know you even had it? Why did you bring it to a school? I think you are lucky you were not arrested and charged with a criminal offense.
 
Shann said:
You're a security guard and you can't carry a knife? Wow.:confused:
Click to expand...

It was a switchblade automatic! These are illegal in many jurisdictions. Let's see what the "rest of the story" is before we start judge judying.
 
DGG said:
It was a switchblade automatic! These are illegal in many jurisdictions. Let's see what the "rest of the story" is before we start judge judying.
Click to expand...

Missed that part :o
 
I believe the problem was that the Piranha is an auto? If you're getting it back, I'd it was sequestered rather than confiscated. (Confiscation = theft! :) )

Perhaps a Spyderco with its opening hole would work for you, without fingernails.

In your op/ed, you could stress that utility of an auto, rather than its speed. You could point out the reasonable size and simple design of the knife, that it isn't some mall ninja special.
 
So you sell all of your knives except one that's illegal to carry. But you carry it anyway, at your job as a school security guard?

Yeah it sucks that your knife was 'confiscated', but you really should have known better.

Could carrying a switchblade knife on Minnestoa school property be a felony?
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/mn.txt

In New Mexico switchblades are illegal to posess, carry, display, manufacture... I don't know if there's an exception for law enforcement, but if there is, it chaps my hide even more.

-Bob
 
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Bob W said:
So you sell all of your knives except one that's illegal to carry. But you carry it anyway, at your job as a school security guard?

Yeah it sucks that your knife was 'confiscated', but you really should have known better.

Could carrying a switchblade knife on Minnestoa school property be a felony?
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/mn.txt

In New Mexico switchblades are illegal to posess, carry, display, manufacture... I don't know if there's an exception for law enforcement, but if there is, it chaps my hide even more.

-Bob
Click to expand...

I didn't have a choice as to which knives I sold. I tried selling all of them, it's just that the Piranha is the only one that didn't sell. It's still for sale somewhere in the For Sale by Individuals forum, btw.

I did know better, and I don't blame them for taking it necessarily, well, except for the fact that they took it because it was a knife- they never even actually realized it was an automatic, lol, which probably saved my hide from being pinned to a bureaucratic wall.

In Minnesota there is a collector's exemption, and since the Piranha is (For me, at least) an expensive knife, it's not too hard to argue that point- the only reason I've been carrying it is because I don't have a non-auto right now (Except my field knife, which would be even LESS welcome), and I understood and accepted the inherent risk in that action, which is why I'm not too angry at security per se as I am angry at the whole policy to begin with.

Esav Benyamin said:
I believe the problem was that the Piranha is an auto? If you're getting it back, I'd it was sequestered rather than confiscated. (Confiscation = theft! )

Perhaps a Spyderco with its opening hole would work for you, without fingernails.

In your op/ed, you could stress that utility of an auto, rather than its speed. You could point out the reasonable size and simple design of the knife, that it isn't some mall ninja special.
Click to expand...

I know, and I had a Spyderco with an opening hole, but I gave it away in the "Anybody want to give me a knife?" thread. Plus the Centofante III has a blade length over three inches, which is evidently the standard for what is allowed on campus. My column will touch on autos, but I would like to talk about more common knives, since I was also told that a Leatherman or SAK with a blade longer than 3" would not be allowed, either, and that's more obviously stupid.

I did get it back, but only because I work security in the first place and I know the director, plus I'm Army ROTC and I successfully argued that knives are, if not vital, helpful enough for my work to justify my possession- not that I should have to. I also promised of my own free will to bring all my knives back home over break, which also worked in my favor, since break starts tomorrow, and the director was happy at the prospect of me doing something about it immediately.

DGG said:
What's their side of the story? How did they know you even had it? Why did you bring it to a school? I think you are lucky you were not arrested and charged with a criminal offense.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am lucky, but that doesn't make me much less irritated at the policy. I figured I'd get a lot of responses like this, so once and for all, I ADMIT I WAS TECHNICALLY WRONG. My mitigation is that I was not aware of this specific policy regarding knives as far as why mine was taken (Mea culpa, I knew autos weren't well liked, but it was the blade length that got me), and that it really is a stupid rule, which I don't think anyone here disagrees with. They knew I had it because they noticed it clipped into my pocket, I brought it to school because I use all of my knives, and right now only have two, and they don't really have a side because it never became an official issue.

I think my column will do its best not to draw attention to my particular case, and I'm not really going to rant about it, either. Drawing attention to my case may bring to light the fact that the knife is an auto, in which case I would be screwed, since the only other person who noticed it was an auto was the director, who might be forced to take official action if enough people complained.
 
Yes, you could argue the "Collector's" exemption, if cops had found it in your home, curated or displayed in collector-grade condition. It'd be difficult to argue that you only had the knife for the purpose of collecting when the knife was obviously used and you were carrying it.

I guess my problem with your situation (it's really not much of a "problem", just a minor issue), is that some folks seem to think that laws and rules only apply to everyone else, not themselves. That's particularly irritating when the person is a LEO.

I do wish you the best of luck. Hopefully your boss(es) will be 'cool' about it and keep the situation in-house. Best possible outcome, they return the knife and you agree not to bring it to school again.

Other probable outcomes are much worse: 1) They ask you to resign, in exchange for them not filing charges. 2) They call the cops, you're fired, the DA files charges to make an example of you, you must get a lawer and appear in court, and the knife is destroyed.

Good Luck, and let us know how it goes,
-Bob
 
At this moment, it is NOT GOING WELL. They were originally closer on my side, and the collector exemption is difficult to marginal at best.

I have a lot of mitigating factors on my side right now, but the Director of Security is under the impression that possession of an automatic knife is a misdemeanor- and he might be right, and he will be right unless I can argue the collector exemption- which is looking increasingly bad for me right now.

At this point I can say that I will almost definitely be fired. What I'm scrambling to save right now is whether or not I will be allowed to remain on campus- for some reason it has become impossible to find regulations about this sort of thing. SHIT. I am utterly screwed. It's at damage control at this point- all I can really hope to salvage is being able to remain on campus and not having criminal charges pressed.

Best case: Out of some miracle I manage to retain my security job with no more than administrative discipline, the University does not kick me out of the dorms, and I am not disenrolled from school.

Worst case: I am fired from the security job, lose my other university job as a columnist for the school paper, am kicked out of the dorms or out of the school, and have a misdemeanor on my otherwise lily-white record.

Most likely: I am fired from the security job (Or possibly allowed to resign), keep my other job as a columnist, and receive no academic punishment.

I honestly cannot predict what's going to happen, but to be frank, I'm scared. Nothing like this has happened to me before, and I'd really appreciate any help and prayer you guys can offer me.:( I hope to be able to argue my case in front of the Security Director and end it at that, but if not, I will probably have to argue it in front of the police and possibly a Student Senate Court. I don't know where to begin. Frankly, if anything approximating the worst case happens, this will ruin my life as I know it. And I am really scared right now.

I accept responsibility for this error in judgment, and for failing to do adequate research on the legality of my EDC, so if you guys could stop making comments about "Why didn't you know better?" or "What did you expect?" I'd feel a little better. I know that I did something evidently illegal here, and in the end I'm the only one who can take responsibility for that, and I choose to do so.

I don't think it's right that things should go this way, but evidently, it is legal, and the law has to be enforced equally, regardless of whether or not the law is just and right, it is fair. I am still an objector to this law, but I did know what it might mean.

The one ray of light in the current situation is that I called my Army ROTC instructor to report the possible legal violation, and AFTER he stopped laughing, he told me the story of the time he was handcuffed and detained on campus. Evidently it will not be a serious legal issue for ROTC participation.
 
Some things on your side:

They didn't find it in your dorm, so you shouldn't be thrown out of there IMO. But you need to explain where you kept it, if not in your dorm.

ROTC instructor didn't over-react. So your enrollment with them seems safe as long as you can remain a student.

A misdemeanor's not the end of the world. Probation, pay a fine, community service, slap on the wrist.

Best Luck,
Bob
 
To stay in good standing with your boss at the newspaper, you could write an expose about Campus Cops carrying illegal weapons on campus...

Sorry, I couldn't resist; it's part of being a dick.

-Bob
 
My enrollment with ROTC is entirely safe, and I'm 90% sure that the University can't just kick me out or anything, since alcohol misdemeanors are rarely kicked out unless you were providing alcohol to a couple hundred minors, disturbing people on the other side of campus, and destroying public property or some such shit.

I would desperately need to hold on to this job. I can't afford to lose it. If I can keep that, even if I get a misdemeanor, I will be happy.

I was planning on using my next op/ed column to talk about knives on campus, too. We'll see.
 
I hate to say it but it looks like your screwed. Here are the laws in question.

Section 609.66. Dangerous weapons.
Subdivision 1.
Acts prohibited. Whoever does any of the following is
guilty of a crime... (4) manufactures, transfers, or
possesses metal knuckles or a switch blade knife opening
automatically; or
(5) possesses any other dangerous article or substance
for the purpose of being used unlawfully as a weapon
against another...
Click to expand...

And

Subdivision 1d. Possession on school property... whoever
possesses, stores, or keeps a dangerous weapon or uses or
brandishes a replica firearm or a BB gun while knowingly on
school property is guilty of a felony... [exception for gun
and knife shows held on school property]
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It is clear that your state considers switchblades to be dangerous weapons. So you were in violation of the law. I was hoping to find an exemption for work related use but there is none.

As to the collector exemption, here is the text.

Subdivision 2. Exceptions. Nothing in this section
prohibits the possession of the articles mentioned by
museums or collectors of art or for other lawful purposes
of public exhibition.
Click to expand...

Since you were carrying the knife as an EDC and not displaying it for collector value, I would say that it does not apply.

My personal opinion would be to go along with what ever they will agree to that keeps you out of jail. You are basically in some pretty big trouble. It is time to go into damage control mode and try and save your skin. Agree to anything that aviods criminal charges. This is not a misdomenor but a felony charge and you could be looking at 3yrs if they want to push it.
 
R.W.Clark said:
I hate to say it but it looks like your screwed. Here are the laws in question.



And



It is clear that your state considers switchblades to be dangerous weapons. So you were in violation of the law. I was hoping to find an exemption for work related use but there is none.

As to the collector exemption, here is the text.



Since you were carrying the knife as an EDC and not displaying it for collector value, I would say that it does not apply.

My personal opinion would be to go along with what ever they will agree to that keeps you out of jail. You are basically in some pretty big trouble. It is time to go into damage control mode and try and save your skin. Agree to anything that aviods criminal charges. This is not a misdomenor but a felony charge and you could be looking at 3yrs if they want to push it.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it is at all clear, really. Switchblades are not defined as dangerous weapons or deadly weapons, their possession is a crime, but actually, possession of a switchblade in Minnesota (With the exception of the collector and the museum) is a misdemeanor. I am a little worried about the possession on school grounds bit, but we will have to see. I did make a strong case that my knife was a collector piece for me as well as an EDC- the point being that being a poor collector with a small collection, I cannot afford to purchase a knife that does not see use at some point, and there is no provision that says a collector may not use the knife he owns as an additional purpose to public display- which I do, to the limited extent that my knives are of public interest. I do not believe that they want to push this issue, and I hope and pray not, because otherwise, yes, you are right, they could wreck my life.

Which would, to be frank, be a damn shame. Even if it wasn't my hide on the line. I have never had any trouble with the law. Never even a parking ticket. I graduated valedictorian in a class of 573, and rank in the top 1% of every standardized test I've ever taken. I am active and have been active in community service, and all I really want to do is graduate college and serve in the military. I think it would be absolutely wasteful for someone to try and ruin my life over something like this. I wasn't in knowing violation of the law, I thought that the collector provision legalized my possession, and I still believe that until someone can prove otherwise. I did not know that I could not have a knife with a blade in excess of three inches on campus, because when I checked the regulations, their knife policy was under the Affirmative Action department, which for obvious reasons I never thought to ask about knives.

I know that I might be screwed here, and it would be fair and legal if they threw the book at me, but I don't think it would be RIGHT. Understand, I'm pretty much fighting for the rest of my life right now. If I ever start believing that this is hopeless, it will be, so I REFUSE TO BELIEVE that this case is lost. It ain't over till it's over.

Think about the quote in your signature. Even if I have nothing left, and they drag my reputation through the mud, I have been scrupulously honest and cooperative in these entire proceedings so far. I will still walk out, no matter what happens, with my honor and dignity intact, because I refuse to let them take that. I will continue to fight this until I can't fight anymore, and if I lose, I will have done my best.

I ask for your continued prayers and support as I go through this right now.
 
Support we can give, and good advice, which is probably what you pay for it. So, don't let this depress you. Keep cool, go with the flow. DON'T write any columns on knives now ...

It is not the end of he world. If they fire you, expel you, and leave you with a court record, you are still young, smart, and beginning to be educated. Turn around and go back to school somewhere else.
 
To be honest reading the posts, something doesn't sound right. Did you display the knife in a threatening manner or something? What's up with your superiors? You on their bad side or something? Why again did they see it? Don't write about it in the paper! That's like calling them out and forcing them to take more serious action. Plead ignorance, stupidity, whatever, man! Tell them to throw the knife out or keep it. It's not worth the problem.I just have a hard time getting how this is such a big issue that cannot be handled in a moderate fashion:confused: Again don't do anything to antagonize your superiors at this point.Good luck.
 
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