Another 110 question

bertl

bertl

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I recently got what I thought was going to be a 5th Version Variation 3 (BUCK, 110, USA), but when it arrived something looked odd. The blade is correct and the lockbar length is the same as for a 5th Version. However, the body of the knife is definitely a 2-dot.

I figure there are two possibilities: 1) the knife was sent in for repair and things got switched, or 2) this is a transition from the 5th Version to the 2-dot.

I think it might be a transition with Buck using up old parts. The scales are attached with both adhesive and pins, which should make it produced no later than 1974 to early 1975.

My question is: Has anyone seen something similar? Let me know what you think. -- Bert
 
Bert, That version is very close to a 2 dot. I never knew the lockbar length had changed? Did you get a box or papers with it? I did not know they stopped using glue in 1975. How did you arrive at these conclusions? DM
 
David, I don't "know" that they stopped using glue in 1975. That statement is based on a couple of things. One is from a post by Bill Keys on 09-15-2010, "In early 1975 we began a conversion to the sintered brass, from Pacific Sintered Metals, which is what we still use today. for the first few months of using the new sintered brass, we glued the wood to the brass, but by mid year had transitioned to only riveting the wood to the brass. I am very familiar with this as I was the first operator on teh "inlay" riveter for the 110's to only rivet the wood on. I also still have the scar on the bottom of my left index finger where the removed a rivet from my finger after i drove it into my finger from the top (we didn't need no stinkin guards back then. At that time, we were still using only 2 inlay rivets, one at the front and one at the back, plus the rocker rivet/pin. ." Another is from the 110 seminars by George Stinzel where he mentions that the reason for the 3-pin and 4-pin 2-dots is that when they stopped using adhesive, there was a problem with the scales coming loose; therefore, they went to more scale pins. Also, I have looked at several 2-dot knives, and this is the only one I have found with adhesive, which makes me think it is an early 2-dot. As for the lockbar length, I have measured the lockbar length and position on 2-dot and later models as compared to earlier versions. Also, see my post "110 Design Questions" from 03-23-2011.

I have no box or papers with the knife. However, I am sure it has a 5th Version Variation 3 blade and lockbar in an early 2-dot frame. It may be a repair job, but I think it may be a transition. I would love to know if anyone has seen the same thing. -- Bert
 
It could be .? Mr. Keys statement on no longer glueing is sufficient. I didn't recall that. But I did attended the 110 seminar by George Stinzel at the 20yr. Reunion and don't recall him saying that. Yet, a lot went on that cannot all be remembered and if indeed George said it I would take it as fact. What I do recall him and Joe saying concerning the 4 brass pin 2 dots was that during the mfg. process of the brass frame the holes were created so why not put a pin in it. That was done for a short time. Hence, this move created a whole other version. Us collectors are a different bunch. ;)
I've not seen what you describe. I have seen thin, black felt paper used as a liner on 5th Versions (3 liners). This seemed to help with fit . Which would certainly cause me to think with the use of this the adhesive should not be used. One other collector here has taught me the importance of buying knives that have the box and papers when possible (DH). Which helps lay to rest Speculation. DM
 
David, I bought the knife for an ulterior reason. I was looking for a relatively inexpensive 3 liner that wasn't in the greatest shape so I could take it apart and look at the inside. I wasn't worried about papers. Now, that is not going to happen because of the peculiar nature of this particular knife. So, the search is on again for an inexpensive 3 liner that isn't in the best of shape. Don't worry, I will not take a collector quality knife apart. Check the video from the 20th Anniversary 110 seminar; there is a brief comment about the 3 and 4 scale-pin 2-dots and lack of adhesive. -- Bert
 
I wasn't sure how to attach photos for this thread, so they are in a new post today "another 110 question"
 
I may have found the answer to my question. After going over the George Stinzel seminar videos several times, I am guessing that this is the last 3-liner model and the first of the sintered brass frames.
 
Bert, I went thru all my old notes and found in some of my writing attached to a copied sheet from the Collectors web-site of 2003 that read, ' 110 sintered brass frames came about in and around the time of the first with dots' . Which would make this right at the time we are discussing here or that of you discovery. So, yes I must agree with George and you on this. One could have a sinetered brass frame with a up right 3 line stamped blade in it and certainly the 2 dots. DM
 
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