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Bearings. Which knife has the largest

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Minh762, Jan 14, 2019 at 12:17 AM.

  1. Minh762

    Minh762

    65
    Mar 8, 2018
    Just dissassembled my Anthem and wow, these bearings are huge. Much larger then the usually (ZT, Hinderer, Koenig). Looking at outer diameter for comparison, what are some knives that have larger then typical bearings?
     
  2. fjblair

    fjblair

    157
    Mar 15, 2017
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    Reate double row bearing system is much bigger in diameter than hinderer or zt, and they're rolling on steel washers instead of titanium.
     
  4. bflying

    bflying Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 4, 2014
    Pics? What did you measure them at for a comparison benchmark?
     
  5. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    I have a J.A.C.K. that someone just bought. I never disassembled it but you can clearly see the diameter of the bearing system is massive compared to hinderer or zt.....and they're ceramic on steel washers. Way way WAY the hell stronger for a bearing system. Just YouTube a reate disassembly video on a torrent or Jack and you will see. They're bearing system is superior to anything else in they're price range as far as I know.......
     
  6. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    547
    Apr 6, 2017
    The ZT 0562 and some other ZTs use 5/32" balls if I recall correctly. Those are the largest diameter balls I've seen used in ball bearing pivot knives.

    Microtech and some other companies (Grimsmo, Guardian Tactical, others I'm sure) seem to make their own bearings, and typically those feature bearing cages that are substantially larger in diameter than most knives from companies like Kizer/ZT/Spyderco/etc, but the balls themselves are still quite small.

    As mentioned, Reate uses multi row bearings, which spreads out any load on the pivot amongst more balls than a normal ball bearing system.

    Honorable mention goes to Real Steel, which uses roller bearings in some of their models. Those are huge, relative to most bearings in knives.
     
  7. vanadium

    vanadium Gold Member Gold Member

    629
    Apr 5, 2003
    The only advantage of larger balls is the ability to withstand greater compressive thrust load, which beyond a certain baseline is not relevant to normal applications of folding knives. More important is the diameter of the entire bearing system (the distance of any ball from the center of rotation) and the number of balls.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 at 3:03 AM
  8. Lodd

    Lodd Gold Member Gold Member

    258
    Jan 23, 2015
    Thread theme:
     
    Sergeua likes this.
  9. Lapedog

    Lapedog Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    The balls or the rings they ride in?

    @ vanadium What’s the story with roller pin bearings? Do they not have to drag because velocity differance between the bearing end closer to the centre of rotation vs the side on the outside further from the centre.
     
  10. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    Exactly......couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  11. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    This is getting deep........but........cone shaped roller bearings would be the perfect solution......with the smaller diameter end of the cone closer to the pivot and the larger end of the cone farthest from pivot......there would have to be milled bearing races to match the angle of the cone roller bearings. This would be the ultimate bearing system......roller bearings covering a large area with no drag. Ultimately at the end of the day.......any knife on bearings will pale in comparison to teflon or phosphor bronze washers in a hard use test. Bearings are for the city/clean environments. Washers are for the guy packing it into the mountains for 2 weeks. Nobody wants to bring a cleaning kit for their knife while counting ounces on a pack. Different strokes for different folks........
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 at 3:16 AM
    vanadium likes this.
  12. Lapedog

    Lapedog Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    I have heard of these legendary cone bearings of the knife gods.

    Perhaps some super advanced lost civilization in the past had bearings like these on even 30$ Chinese knives.

    Btw Shirogorov multirow bearings are exceptionally smooth seeming to prove more bearings means more points of contact means less resistance means smoother action.

    Honestly a huge part of a smooth action is the effect of the detent on the side of the tang. Many bearing knives will drop shut if you hold the lockbar off the tang.
     
  13. vanadium

    vanadium Gold Member Gold Member

    629
    Apr 5, 2003
    Yes, they have to drag. Shirogorov's "MRRS" system has two concentric sets of roller bearings, which can roll at different rates, partially resolving that drawback. Note the purpose here is not only to increase the number of bearings or contact area, as even the pairs of rollers which could be made as one continuous roller are not:

    [​IMG]

    The main advantage of a roller bearing is distribution of load over a larger area. This will not only bear more load, but also place different stresses on adjacent members compared to a ball. For example ApostleP demonstrated how the ball bearings of the original Spyderco Advocate caused dishing of the adjacent washers. Spyderco fixed that with thicker washers IIRC, but they might have also been able to solve it by switching to roller bearings that distributed the load over the entire washer. A while back someone made a video in the Shirogorov shop, suspending knives across two points and applying an arbor press at the pivot, and then testing the smoothness of operation. The roller bearings fared best, probably because there was the least deformation of materials adjacent to the bearings.
     
  14. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018

    I know I know........over engineering at it's best. Lol. Like putting an elevator in an outhouse. They're just knives.
     
    Lapedog likes this.
  15. vanadium

    vanadium Gold Member Gold Member

    629
    Apr 5, 2003
    Which is harder to roll forward a foot: A 20ft steel beam laying on two pipes, or one laying on 20 pipes? More contact does not always mean less resistance. But which one will roll smoothly and not dig itself into the soft Earth while holding up one side of your car? Aha.
     
  16. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    I'm going to invent the first magnetically suspended blade pivot. Only resistance will be air friction. I just gotta find where I left my flux capacitor so I can get started.
     
    brando555 and vanadium like this.
  17. vanadium

    vanadium Gold Member Gold Member

    629
    Apr 5, 2003
    I've got one of these working already, just not at room temperature. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Lapedog

    Lapedog Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    So that is what that superconductor as bolsters trend was all about 6-7 years back.
     
    brando555, marrenmiller and vanadium like this.
  19. Born200yrs2late

    Born200yrs2late Gold Member Gold Member

    49
    Dec 31, 2018
    Damnit........always late to the party......o_O
     
    vanadium likes this.
  20. Minh762

    Minh762

    65
    Mar 8, 2018
    The rings outer diameter. They may be larger than that of Reate mrbs.

    Girth and Surface contact area > Ball size
     

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